Please please please don't skip Polio

cbsp

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 9:36 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

I don't get it. Are you anticipating your child having diptheria, tetanus, pertussis, measles, mumps, and rubella (as an example) all on one day??? How did the doctor answer the question regarding too many vaccines on one visit?

It's not like you have a choice as to which disease comes knocking at the door.

"sorry, mumps, my baby was exposed to measles this week, come back next week"

The doctor's point is that we want to get the kids covered as quickly and as safely as possible so that we don't run the risk of exposure.

I remember parent's of girls in my class who were polio survivors. My husband's aunt is one as well.

I remember hearing the tales from my grandmother's generation of families who lost many children to now preventable diseases. A family with "only" one or two losses was considered fortunate.

If I couldn't relate to the tales then, I certainly have a glimpse of what it meant after surviving the multitude of devastating losses due to corona... And it's only been a few months, not even a "season" of the disease.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 9:42 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

And she was answering that the actual illness takes a much higher toll on the body than the vaccine, due to the nature of vaccines. So one illness does not equal one vaccine.

But I wasn't saying either illnesses or vaccines. The doctor said that, and I don't understand why we can't agree to give vaccines but fewer at a time.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 9:44 pm

cbsp wrote:

Well, MMR is anyway a combo. We're talking about giving multiple in one visit, such as MMR, Dtap, Hib, and Prevnar. That's a lot for the immune system to handle at once regardlesss of the fact that getting all those diseases at once (totally unrealistic and hypothetical) would also be a lot to handle. Your doctor's response made zero sense to me.

amother

Violet

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 9:48 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

But I’m wondering - is exposure to multiple vaccinations at a time really harder on the body than one bad case of the measles? The vaccines are much lower stressors on the immune system than actual diseases, because they have a smaller viral load.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 9:52 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

I don't really know, I think it's like comparing apples to eggs. And I don't get why it's a choice of either multiple vaccines or one (or multiple) diseases. My kids are vaccinated and only one kid had mumps years ago when it went around but I never gave more than one vaccine at a time.

amother

Violet

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 9:58 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

As cbsp’s doctor said, the longer your children are unvaccinated, they longer they are vulnerable to the diseases. If you spread out the shots, that’s a risk you take. I choose not to go that route, but those who chose to spread out their shots don’t bother me, unlike those who choose not to give at all.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 10:02 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

That's not what her doctor said at all but ok.

amother

Beige

Mon, Jun 22 2020, 10:05 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

but they also have adjuvants.

Anyways it’s not an accurate comparison.

There are a lot of scientific reasons why vaccines are more stressful than a wild type disease. Too many and too complex to list here. And I’m not saying actual diseases aren’t stressful or risky. But comparing viral load is simplistic.

cbsp

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 12:26 am

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

That's not what her doctor said at all but ok.

Really?

Please tell me, what did the doctor tell me?

(I can't even ask him to repeat it because he was niftar a few months ago from COVID-19)

Ora in town

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 12:44 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Lol. Lol, lol. I can't. "Wild type disease". Also, you're using the term "viral load" completely incorrectly, especially as it pertains to vaccines.

All this illustrates to me is that you have people with no scientific knowledge arguing a scientific position.

Yes, that's the problem.
People who have no basics at all in science education cannot tell plausible from completely out of the world...

So to them it's all the same.. pseudo-scientific, scientific... no difference...

Sunny Days

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 12:48 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don't think you understand how vaccines work. They don't mimic the disease and make your body fight it off. They're like the crib sheets before the test. They're training your body to recognize a foreign invader. That's it.

I have a degree in immunology, FYI.

Cool!
Must be fascinating. We recently did an immunological workup for a kid & just looking at the results made me dizzy & im like gosh how in the world do you interpret this? LOL

you must be a genius!!

amother

Jade

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 12:55 am

cbsp wrote:

I asked our pediatrician about the bolded perspective.

He asked if I thought my child actually catching the disease wouldn't also overload their system...

"seems a good way" can only be done if one has knowledge of all the details and ramifications...

Children are exposed to thousands of antigens each day. The amount in the vaccines is minuscule. The additives are also minuscule compared to what your child's body handles in a given day.

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

Really smart answer Can't Believe It

When I child is sick, his, system is fighting one disease, as opposed to giving vaccines for multiple diseases +all the garbage that goes into all these vaccines to make the body actually recognize that there is something foreign it needs to fight

It was a very poorly worded answer. But yes, it is smart.

You aren't aware of it but you and your children are exposed to thousands of antigens each day, as well as tons of garbage and chemicals. The amount of virus and additives in the vaccines is a drop in the bucket compared to what anyone not living in a plastic bubble is exposed to.

There is much gain and the idea of overload is one thought up by people who don't understand science.

banana123

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 12:56 am

bananas4bananas wrote:

https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-false-dilemma/#:~:text=False%20Dilemma%20Fallacy,actually%20many%20shades%20of%20gray.

False Dilemma Fallacy. Sometimes called the “either-or” fallacy, a false dilemma is a logical fallacy that presents only two options or sides when there are many options or sides. Essentially, a false dilemma presents a “black and white” kind of thinking when there are actually many shades of gray

You...you....you are not banana!!
Punch

cbsp

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 12:58 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

For the record it was me paraphrasing the answer I received 8-10 years ago. The gist was the same.

amother

Jade

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 1:03 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

No, it's not.

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

A vaccine for one disease has more adjuvant than a vaccine for multiple diseases, because the multiple-disease vaccine doesn't need as much adjuvant to help it work.

Please bring proof that vaccines are "more stressful than a wild type disease." As far as I know, the vast majority of healthy people handle vaccines just fine, with hardly any negative effects, but do not handle the diseases well, with hardly any negative effects.

Wouldn't logic dictate that the body respond worse to vaccines than to the disease if vaccines are more stressful than the disease?

amother

Jade

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 1:04 am

Ora in town wrote:

Vaccines don't "overburden" the childrens' "systems"...
The schedule is proven and tested,

As long as the child has no immune system proble, which should be found out beforehand, there is nothing to fear...

I think much of this anti-vaxx movement is spoiled brat behavior, irrational and haughty behavior by people who don't know what it looks like when we have to live without the amenities of modern medicine.

It's essentially privilege.

amother

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 1:18 am

gamzehyaavor wrote:

Cool!
Must be fascinating. We recently did an immunological workup for a kid & just looking at the results made me dizzy & im like gosh how in the world do you interpret this? LOL

you must be a genius!!

I'm not smart at all. The more you remain in the research/academic world, the more it reminds you of it every day.

But if anything, I wish women on this thread would read about the efforts to eradicate polio. It's one of the singularly best "human achievements" in the last century. (Which means Hashem really orchestrated that we could eradicate polio)

https://www.amazon.com/Polio-O.....5WCGW

Sunny Days

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 1:31 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm not smart at all. The more you remain in the research/academic world, the more it reminds you of it every day.

But if anything, I wish women on this thread would read about the efforts to eradicate polio. It's one of the singularly best human achievements in the last century.

https://www.amazon.com/Polio-O.....5WCGW

I kind of know what you mean with that.
Agree about the polio. I grew up knowing quite a few polio survivors and am very grateful to live in a time of a bh working polio vaccine.

Anyway, off topic, but talking about book recommendations, do you know of a good one on microbiology/bacteriology? I need help with my gram positive/negative organisms (“friends”)...