When do you take suicidal threats seriously-updated

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)

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Kiwi13

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 8:58 pm

Burlywood makes a good point. Sometimes the help these kids need isn't to address being suicidal, but to address ways to cope with frustration and conflict, and to communicate in healthy ways.

Zehava

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 8:58 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Amother scarlet. Tried all these things and he refuses. I really need a parenting expert to advise me. Will try to find one,

You are way past parenting experts
You need a mental health expert
Has he been through any kind of trauma?

amother

Pumpkin

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:00 pm

Always good to get a strep test and blood work to rule out any underlying conditions such as pandas, pans, lyme, thyroid ....

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:02 pm

Also- the fact that he “says he is overwhelmed or agitated” speaks volumes to me- he clearly knows the “therapy speak” tag lines here and sounds as if he is a manipulative child. Please speak with a therapist to get the tools to deal
with his emotions and even more importantly how to remain calm and cool when the mood happens so that he stops manipulating you with his behavior (and my guess is the rest of the family is effected too as you are pulled away from them when needing to deal with him.)

amother

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:09 pm

Zehava wrote:

You are way past parenting experts
You need a mental health expert
Has he been through any kind of trauma?

Meant a therapist who can advise me cuz I can't get him decent therapy.

His life is/has been a bit colorful.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:11 pm

And please don’t go to a parenting advisor- that comes after you have completely hashed out this issue with a competent mental health professional (please not a social worker) from every single angle. This is not an issue to be taking lightly unless a licensed professional tells you to do so. (I am not at all trying to speak down to any social workers- in my extensive experience I have found them to be quicker to jump to the therapy tag lines like “this is cause for concern, all an ambulance etc” (not that some behaviors don’t call for that..)instead of exploring the root causes behind behaviors.)

amother

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:13 pm

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

Just a thought from the daughter of a psychologist who has had a child with severe anxiety and dealt with and overcame these issues.
Have you ever reacted to his threat to kill himself in a way that he thinks he can manipulate you into paying attention by saying those things? Any sort of reaction from you, even once! (panic, fear, convincing him that it’s a bad thing to say etc etc) in a young child who is anxious and/or attention seeking Can be used by him to manipulate you and May have nothing to do with actually threatening to kill himself (ie the only danger it presents is having you wrapped around his pinky when he says scary things like that- and nothing to actually do with self harm) You need to speak with a competent therapist (even if you don’t bring him to one because he can’t be switched from where he is) And make sure to include your reactions To your child when he talked about killing himself. It could well be a manipulative behavior that he is using on you and you may be able to get the skills to walk back your reactions so that he stops using it to control you- and to help you calm down about the scariness is an empty threat. I would go for a licensed psychologist such as a family therapist, child psychologist, counselor etc and not a social worker.

I don't panic. I Try to focus on calming him down. "It's ok. It's going to be ok. I'm here" I do say "no reason to kill yourself, we will figure it out together. I am here for you"

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don't panic. I Try to focus on calming him down. "It's ok. It's going to be ok. I'm here" I do say "no reason to kill yourself, we will figure it out together. I am here for you"

That’s awesome- and you sound like a fantastic mom. You will see this through!! Does it get your complete and immediate attention? That’s a reaction that he could be asking for as well.

amother

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:22 pm

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

That’s awesome- and you sound like a fantastic mom. You will see this through!! Does it get your complete and immediate attention? That’s a reaction that he could be asking for as well.

Yes. Like I said it does have a manipulative feel. It feels Like a combination of lack of coping skills and manipulation. But don't want to not give him attention then cuz I think either way he needs help to calm down. It's over within 2 minutes. Today was the first day he actually did something (held breath). He has been threatening suicide for over a year now.

amother

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:38 pm

Update: Thank you all for your guidance.

Was roasting marshmallows with him now. Asked him about what got him so upset earlier.

(Earlier he had gotten anxious when I brought up the subject of day camps. )

He told me he was anxious about his bike and then when I brought up camps it just overwhelmed him.

I asked him if he wants to make up a code for when he has something bothering him but can't get it out. He was happy to do that.

I think I can focus on helping him express himself. He has a large vocabulary of emotions bec we do a lot of emotion talking but he keeps things in and they come out often in sobs or in this case as wanting to commit suicide.

amother

Linen

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:43 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Meant a therapist who can advise me cuz I can't get him decent therapy.

His life is/has been a bit colorful.

It sounds like you're doing a good job, but please please get him decent therapy. A 12 year old talking about suicide is serious and in need of a good therapist, especially when his life is colorful as you say. "I can't get him decent therapy" isn't an excuse, you don't want to regret this later. A mother is not a therapist and kids often share more with therapists than parents.

amother

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:47 pm

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

Trust me. I really can't. My hands are tied. (Also he isn't 12. I wrote that he's under 12)

amother

Linen

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 9:51 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Trust me. I really can't. My hands are tied. (Also he isn't 12. I wrote that he's under 12)

Under 12 is even more serious. Please do everything in your power to get him adequate help. It's your responsibility to take this very seriously, especially if it's been going on for a year and it's not just a passing phase.

amother

Chocolate

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 10:39 pm

I'm sorry for what you are going through. It sounds scary and stressful. I dont have a background in suicide prevention, but professional help sounds really important right now.

A little off on a tangent but I wanted to add:

I agree with previous posters that labeling emotions is very important for coping skills. Part of that includes talking about how your body feels when you get angry, stressed, scared...("When I am angry, my chest gets tights, my face gets hot and my hands clench")
And then teaching how to relax the body from that state. Deep breathing is really important to help calm the body down and bring it back to homeostasis. Breathing is one of the most important regulation tools that you can teach a child who gets overwhelmed, easily stressed, or angry. It literally brings the body back down from a flight/fright response.

Bubby6

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 11:04 pm

Zehava wrote:

You are way past parenting experts
You need a mental health expert
Has he been through any kind of trauma?

Good direction there. Is someone bullying him? Older neighbor or relative bothering him. Try to talk, talk, listen, listen and listen to him. He is in pain. Seeing a play therapist would be so beneficial.

amother

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 11:10 pm

Thank you all. I got what I needed. Please only continue responding if you have something new to offerv thst nobody mentioned. It's a bit distressing to read things I already responded to other posters. But thanks for caring. If this were not a public forum I would give more details but I can't.

Bruria

Tue, Jun 23 2020, 11:13 pm

Look at universities for therapy. Some have wonderful programs and they work with you for a low fee.
If your child is not comfortable with the therapist change it, hands tied or not.

amother

Red

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 1:32 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Manipulation was mentioned.
Children with bpd generally are misjudged and misheard and thus labeled as being manipulative.

For some children, when they say mommy I’m hurting -their mom takes it very seriously and addresses their worries, concerns and they get the attention they need in order to address whatever emotional turnmoil they are dealing within.

Other children learn from an early age that getting mommy’s or daddy’s attention doesn’t come easy when communicating it in an ordinary manor.
So they learn to say trigger words which get them the attention right away.

So if I child learns from an early age that mommy only makes special “mommy and me times” when I say I’m gonna hurt myself or I’m gonna kill myself, of course they will continue using this tactic to get moms attention.
It’s a negative habit that they learn by association and adapting to their environment.

The bottom line is that whatever the wording they use-no child says these things just to get a kick out of manipulating a parent.
What is your child gaining in this scenario? It sounds to me that what he gained was quality time with you, where you understood how deeply he felt, and how deeply he needed your help. And that’s how he got to talk it out and communicate it.
It’s not like his manipulation is leading him to get something that he shouldn’t be getting in the first place. Which is the time and understanding on his level as to what’s going on for him and how you can help him help himself.

Now ideally you would want to change this habit of having to use extreme behaviors to get your attention. There’s a reason why he has learnt this behavior that it garnets results. Results/responses he is not getting when he just goes about saying he is feeling sad about something.

See the child. See through the circumstance and understand that there’s deep pain there and he’s trying to communicate to your that he is hurting that deeply.

Now, otoh I would definitely discuss this with a mental health professional and never ignore or take lightly mention of suicide, no matter how many times he has said it in the past and not acted upon it. You have got to get to the bottom of it in therapy, but never block out a cry for help.

(As far as what my background is, I have personal experience with serious mh issues in my immediate family and have been through this on multiple occasions in diff scenarios)

Mamushka

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 5:04 am

I wanted to add as a coping mechanism for when your child feels overwhelmed, he might find help in turning on music and running/dancing or so with the music.
Discuss it with him at a time he is calm.
Good Luck and I hope you will be able to work this out soon.

Rappel

Wed, Jun 24 2020, 5:21 am

You've received some great advice here.

Just a tip: if the breath-holding escalates, don't worry. At the worst case scenario, just holding his breath will make him faint, at which point he'll start breathing normally again (natural reflex). Alarming to watch, but not at all dangerous.

The emotional regulation behind the breath-holding was already addressed upthread.

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