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Would you make a shidduch with a family that....
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Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jun 25 2020, 12:28 pm
It does seem to be a small thing to criticize. I do remember thinking it was odd that a neighbor once asked me permission to park in front of my house. It made me wonder if she's upset if I ever parked in front of hers. I do try to avoid if possible parking in front of others houses if their are other options.

Another thing to consider is if there is a mail issue. We literally stopped receiving our mail because the mailman was annoyed with people always blocking the mailbox- even parking within a few feet wasn't good enough.
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jun 25 2020, 12:52 pm
singleagain wrote:
And I'd you have a handicap, you can and should ask your city to out a handicap spot for you.


Yes, but based on personal experience, it can take months to get all the paperwork and get a sign put out. I tried to get a sign after surgery once when living in a neighborhood without driveways and by the time we got the sign it was almost 6 months later and I was nearly walking again. I am not saying thats the case here , I am just saying if they have a handicapped family member I would understand this habbit.
Another reason would be lets say someone drives their elderly handicapped mother over on a regular basis but she can’t get a sign because she doesn’t live there. My grandmother was unable to get out of the car when it wasn’t parked on flat ground and my parents drive way is on a hill so whenever she would come we needed to either get a wheelchair or park in front of the house.
Again those are just 2 examples from my personal experience.
It could be the person is just selfish and lazy in which case I agree I wouldn’t want to do a shidduch with them.
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jun 25 2020, 12:58 pm
notshanarishona wrote:
Yes, but based on personal experience, it can take months to get all the paperwork and get a sign put out. I tried to get a sign after surgery once when living in a neighborhood without driveways and by the time we got the sign it was almost 6 months later and I was nearly walking again. I am not saying thats the case here , I am just saying if they have a handicapped family member I would understand this habbit.
Another reason would be lets say someone drives their elderly handicapped mother over on a regular basis but she can’t get a sign because she doesn’t live there. My grandmother was unable to get out of the car when it wasn’t parked on flat ground and my parents drive way is on a hill so whenever she would come we needed to either get a wheelchair or park in front of the house.
Again those are just 2 examples from my personal experience.
It could be the person is just selfish and lazy in which case I agree I wouldn’t want to do a shidduch with them.


Good points. But then I think there's also the question of how you ask. "You know we have xyz situation, would you please mind finding another spot" vs "hey jerk get out, that's /my/" spot." And everything in between.

I still say, finding out how they ask, and how they react when told no, would be more important to me then the claim over the spot.
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jun 25 2020, 1:53 pm
Is this a driveway, that they don't want their driveway blocked?
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Angolama




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jun 25 2020, 2:17 pm
watergirl wrote:
You are a new member and you don't know me or the other people here very well. I suggest holding off on making assumptions on other people. Either don't do it at all, or wait until you know members a bit better. Especially before saying things like the bolded. You don't know me and you don't know what stage of life I'm up to.


I was trying to be Dan Lekaf Zechus.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jun 25 2020, 2:29 pm
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
Its brooklyn and its very annoying to go home and not have a spot. I used to ask ppl to mkve their cars cuz they would make a 2 car spot into 1 and then my dh wouldn't have a spot in front.

So it's not weird. It could be she is putting her husband and herself or kids first.

Not weird. Of course move on with the shidduch


Its not at all strange to ask people not to take 2 parking spots.

But to ask someone to move their legally parked car is bizarre.

I grew up in a neighborhood where everyone owned 2 or 3 cars, and parking was scarce. You parked where you could. It was annoying for my father to get home from work at 10 pm and have to park all the way up the street. But that's life in a city neighborhood.
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ValleyMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 2:14 am
Last I checked this is America where we have the freedom to park wherever we want as long as it is a legal spot.

That being said at one point as a family of FIVE BH and we had four drivers. Where we live you cannot rely on public transportation. That being said we had TWO cars in our driveway and TWO cars squeezed into the front sot of our house. Our neighbor respectfully asked that we try to keep the cars out of her driveway.
I was very GRATEFUL for her sharing with us that sometimes the kids parked too close to her home.


At one point one of my husband clients parked in front of another neighbors home and they had a meltdown.
Literally the man came out of his home and YELLED at my husbands client for parking in front of his home.
THIS was mortifying and the wife and I happened to be very good friends t the time.
She came out ranting at the gentleman as well.
I found this unacceptable.
The man parked in front of their home for less than an hour.
It was a business meeting.

Needless to say we are no longer friends.
I need to surround myself with good energy.
I need to have tolerant people in my life.
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amother




Beige
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 11:41 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
I'm starting to understand why we have a shidduch crisis...
Can you please explain to me what impact this can possibly have on two young people getting married??


My mechutanim lack social skills, and it definitely impacted my son-in-law.
It’s very easy to connect the dots on other negative characteristics as well.
As the saying goes-“the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”.
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Frumme




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 12:02 pm
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
I guess my OOT community has very different standards. I'm sorry, but I don't think I will ever understand.


It's ok, Rose. Same people today would never have let their son marry Rivkah imeinu because of her family.

I get that family can influence a child-- for sure. But not every child comes out exactly like their parents (for better or worse).

If this is the worst thing that's being shared, look into it a little. But mostly look into how the girl would react in a similar situation. Would she act the same way as her parents? That's something to ask her references.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 12:06 pm
Frumme wrote:
It's ok, Rose. Same people today would never have let their son marry Rivkah imeinu because of her family.

I get that family can influence a child-- for sure. But not every child comes out exactly like their parents (for better or worse).

If this is the worst thing that's being shared, look into it a little. But mostly look into how the girl would react in a similar situation. Would she act the same way as her parents? That's something to ask her references.


As I studied this parsha this past year with one of my DD's (helping her study for a test), see what meforshim say about this topic. That's why she had to be removed from her home at such a young age, or she surely would have picked up those negative middos and Yitzchak would never have married her.
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Angolama




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 12:09 pm
Frumme wrote:
It's ok, Rose. Same people today would never have let their son marry Rivkah imeinu because of her family.


Rivkah was chosen because of her sterling middos before her family was revealed, and they asked her if she was willing to walk away from her family permanently before she went to marry Yitzchak. Nobody would say that you should never marry someone from a rough background with a non ideal upbringing if you know with certainty that this person is their own person that defied their raising and has a different set of ideals, especially if you never have to meet or deal with the inlaws and family the way Rivkah did. However, the majority of children are strongly influenced by the way they are raised, which is why a negative upbringing is a red flag that should be investigated thoroughly to ascertain how that affected the individual in question.
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Frumme




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 12:15 pm
Chayalle wrote:
As I studied this parsha this past year with one of my DD's (helping her study for a test), see what meforshim say about this topic. That's why she had to be removed from her home at such a young age, or she surely would have picked up those negative middos and Yitzchak would never have married her.


Fair point, although I disagree that someone will "surely" pick up negative middos. As Jews, we are above destiny. No one is going to be a bad person simply based on the fact that they have bad family members (Rochel and Leah had a not great middos father, but it was their mother, Adina, who showed them good middos).

My point was more that the family does not always provide a clear cut view of the person in question. I don't assume a BT has negative middos even though I know that his or her parents aren't keeping halacha and certain things really do affect one's middos. Just as well I don't assume that just because someone's parents are xenophobic that the child is, too.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 12:18 pm
Frumme wrote:
Fair point, although I disagree that someone will "surely" pick up negative middos. As Jews, we are above destiny. No one is going to be a bad person simply based on the fact that they have bad family members (Rochel and Leah had a not great middos father, but it was their mother, Adina, who showed them good middos).

My point was more that the family does not always provide a clear cut view of the person in question. I don't assume a BT has negative middos even though I know that his or her parents aren't keeping halacha and certain things really do affect one's middos. Just as well I don't assume that just because someone's parents are xenophobic that the child is, too.


Hope you don't mind if I disagree with your point once again, but....I know BT's who have lovely parents, nice people with good middos who just didn't know about keeping the Torah and yiddishkeit.

And I do agree that a lovely rose can come from among the thorns. But it's much harder and there's alot to deal with when there's a tough in-law in the picture.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 12:22 pm
Angolama wrote:
Rivkah was chosen because of her sterling middos before her family was revealed, and they asked her if she was willing to walk away from her family permanently before she went to marry Yitzchak. Nobody would say that you should never marry someone from a rough background with a non ideal upbringing if you know with certainty that this person is their own person that defied their raising and has a different set of ideals, especially if you never have to meet or deal with the inlaws and family the way Rivkah did. However, the majority of children are strongly influenced by the way they are raised, which is why a negative upbringing is a red flag that should be investigated thoroughly to ascertain how that affected the individual in question.


Yup, and according to some meforshim, this was one of the reasons why Avraham insisted she come live with him and his family, "rak es bni lo sassur shamah" or something like that, I forget the exact words of the pasuk. IIRC the Ramban and Rashi argue over this point, but one concludes that if Rivka refuses to come, then Eliezer would be free of his promise and Yitzchak could marry one of the daughters of Aner, Eshkol, or Mamrei...and this is preferable to him marrying Rivka and going to live near Lavan.
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Frumme




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 12:26 pm
Chayalle wrote:
Hope you don't mind if I disagree with your point once again, but....I know BT's who have lovely parents, nice people with good middos who just didn't know about keeping the Torah and yiddishkeit.

And I do agree that a lovely rose can come from among the thorns. But it's much harder and there's alot to deal with when there's a tough in-law in the picture.


Of course. I don't disagree with you (on both BTs with lovely parents and that no one wants tough in-laws). I guess I am the type to always want to think of the best in people vs the worst Wink.

I wouldn't want my children to marry into a mean family. I just feel bad for the children of such families who are stigmatized because of their backgrounds, even if they are completely different from their parents.
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happyone




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 12:42 pm
what shidduch crisis?
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browser




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 1:07 pm
I really think u should not take this isolated point to much out of context.
U dont know the ppl.
Some times there is one spouse who is very into having the spot in front of the house open. I know someone like this and they are extremely giving in many ways.
Anyway, everyone has their meshugas even if this is truly meshugas.
Look at the bigger picture
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iyar




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 1:50 pm
Frumme wrote:
Fair point, although I disagree that someone will "surely" pick up negative middos. As Jews, we are above destiny. No one is going to be a bad person simply based on the fact that they have bad family members (Rochel and Leah had a not great middos father, but it was their mother, Adina, who showed them good middos).

My point was more that the family does not always provide a clear cut view of the person in question. I don't assume a BT has negative middos even though I know that his or her parents aren't keeping halacha and certain things really do affect one's middos. Just as well I don't assume that just because someone's parents are xenophobic that the child is, too.


There's no reason to assume a BT has negative middos, AND no reason to even think their parents have negative middos. We value Shmiras Shabbos and people being Shomrei Torah u'Mitzvos, but people who are unobservant often have wonderful refined middos. I know some personally. (I always think it's their real pintele Yid coming through, but really I'm not in a position to decide where anyone's middos are coming from.)
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 2:08 pm
Chayalle wrote:
As I studied this parsha this past year with one of my DD's (helping her study for a test), see what meforshim say about this topic. That's why she had to be removed from her home at such a young age, or she surely would have picked up those negative middos and Yitzchak would never have married her.


But Rachel and Lea grew up with even a worse rasha, and they were not removed at a young age, and Yaakov still married them...

This would go counter this theory.

Shadchanin and families who think they are "First class" would have objected to all of the avot and imahot if they were proposed to them for a shidduch.

Avraham - a ger, son of oved avoda zara
Sarah - same

Yitzhak: son of a ger, brother completely OTD and worse.
Rivka - as you explained

Yaakov: twin brother OTD, married out (multiple times)
Rachel, Lea: see above.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jun 26 2020, 2:48 pm
Ora in town wrote:
But Rachel and Lea grew up with even a worse rasha, and they were not removed at a young age, and Yaakov still married them...

This would go counter this theory.

Shadchanin and families who think they are "First class" would have objected to all of the avot and imahot if they were proposed to them for a shidduch.

Avraham - a ger, son of oved avoda zara
Sarah - same

Yitzhak: son of a ger, brother completely OTD and worse.
Rivka - as you explained

Yaakov: twin brother OTD, married out (multiple times)
Rachel, Lea: see above.


Good point....just writing what I saw in meforshim.

However, you must admit Yaakov had a tough time with Lavan....and it affected his marriage (he lost Rochel due to her interactions with her father and her taking the Terafim....)
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