For anyone who thinks covid is just as dangerous as the flu

amother

Jade

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:06 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

The death rate for coronavirus in America is .04%. This includes those that died because of hospital neglect, bad govt policies like the nursing home policy in NY, the refusal to use stockpiled ventilators, the refusal to utilize makeshift hospitals, etc. It also includes those listed as dying because of coronavirus even if they died for other reasons. And there is no preventative shot for coronavirus like we have for the flu shot.
We have thousands dying from the flu every year despite the fact that we have a preventative flu shot. So the rate of coronavirus, without a preventative shot and with all the problems listed above surrounding it is still not as dangerous as you claim it to be.

Your math is wrong. Even if all of NYC had COVID 19 the death rate in NYC is still .2% (16,500 divided by 8 million). Death rate is probably between .5 and .7%

Ora in town

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:12 am

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Right natural!

Sorry Ora even the most inflated figures no one claims 5% B"H!

While we can evaluate current info and facts as it comes in we certainly do not have to engage in fear mongering or get sucked into that anymore B"H.

Look, here are the latest numbers:

Registered cases, USA: 2,5 million
registered deaths, USA: 126 780

Now you divide the deaths by cases and multiply by 100 to obtain percent (did you learn percent calculation in primary school? Or at least in middle school?)

126'780 : 2'500'000 x 100 = 5,06%

Got it?

The case-fatality rate is over 5% in the USA!

amother

Natural

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:14 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Your math is wrong. Even if all of NYC had COVID 19 the death rate in NYC is still .2% (16,500 divided by 8 million). Death rate is probably between .5 and .7%

Apparently NY is not the center of the universe at least according to imamother so I included all of America which has a death rate of .04%.
But where did you get that 16,500 New Yorkers died (last I checked it was over 31,000)?

amother

Natural

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:16 am

Ora in town wrote:

The numbers you list are inaccurate because many people, including those who were actually sick and had symptoms as well as those who may have been asymptomatic, didnt get tested.

Ora in town

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:16 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Your math is wrong. Even if all of NYC had COVID 19 the death rate in NYC is still .2% (16,500 divided by 8 million). Death rate is probably between .5 and .7%

No, that's plausible.

In the regions more affected, the death rate per population is higher (0,22% for NYC), but over the whole country it gets diluted... so 0,04% for the USA is plausible:
126'780 : 383 000 000 x 100 = 0,033(%)

Ora in town

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:19 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

The numbers you list are inaccurate because many people, including those who were actually sick and had symptoms as well as those who may have been asymptomatic, didnt get tested.

Are you inferring that the USA, that does so many tests, is not able to find all the people who are infected?

Are you claiming that many people run around in the USa who are infected, but don't know they are infected?

Yes, that's true.

That's why those prevention measures (mask, social distancing) are SO IMPORTANT.

They are important so that unknown carriers won't infect other people.

They are important to reduce this risk as far as possible!!!

NOW YOU GOT IT!

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:31 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

What people don't seem to understand is that even if COVID-19 doesn't kill you, you don't bounce back within a day or two of recovery like you do with flu.

Even people who had mild cases, but especially people who had moderate or severe cases, take months and months to recover.

A coworker who had a mild case in March (and came back in early April) still doesn't have full lung capacity back and constantly feels short of breath. A rav in his 60s who had a mild case before Pesach and was recovered within two weeks now has a hard time walking. Perfectly healthy young parents now faint and have trouble functioning at work.

This isn't like the flu, where when it's gone it's gone. COVID-19 sticks around and its effects linger for a long time.

This is so true! There are not enough statistics in yet to understand the long term effects of COVID recovery. For the self centered, here's one - if people are still feeling the effects long term, they will not be functioning at full capacity, and that will affect the economy recovery.

For those who care about other people, it's not just diabetes or heart problems. I got sick the week before Purim, and I still get out of breath from walking up two blocks at a very shallow rise in the pavement.

Even worse, I've already had one TIA and one serious stroke. Because I have vascular migraines I've always been at risk for stroke. Now, it seems that some people who have recovered from COVID are even MORE at risk for stroke, and even people who were not at risk before they were infected.

But I'm 55, so I guess I'm disposable. As long as you can carry on with your life, and you find masks to be a nuisance, that's what matters, right?

If one day I stop posting, and I'm found dead on my apartment floor, well that's just a small price to pay for "getting on with things." Just find someone to feed my dog, OK?

amother

Natural

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:34 am

Ora in town wrote:

I'm saying that not everyone got tested, not that they currently have coronavirus (of course, they could currently have coronavirus but its interesting how its only contagious if you go to shul or sleepaway camp but not if you go to protests or day camp so its a very smart disease that knows how to get you based on the activity that you do ). Remember that in the beginning of all of this they only tested some people, not everyone so even those that had some symptoms were not tested. Lots of them tested positive for anti-bodies as well so walking around with a mask today is irrelevant as they already had coronavirus but never tested for it when they had it.
And lets not forget that we were told that kids are carriers as well which is why they are supposed to stay away from bubby and zeidy and are not allowed to go to sleepaway camp (in NY) .
But if everyone has coronavirus then the death rate in America is extremely low and surrounded in controversy (as already stated above so I wont repeat myself) so its not as dangerous as you claim it is.

amother

Natural

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:37 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

regarding the bolded, are you required to wear a mask when taking a walk? Because I find that its difficult to breath when wearing a mask (which causes other problems as well like scratchy throat, etc) so that may be why you are having trouble breathing.
But I do agree with you that we need studies that show the long term affects of coronavirus but I guess that will take time as well.

Chayalle

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:39 am

Ora in town wrote:

Actually I never heard of anyone I knew or thought I knew dying from the flu, in all my life...

this is really a rare occurence...

B"H.

I actually do know a family that R"L lost a child to the flu. And I have heard of others.

But like I said, much, much less than COVID19.

My childhood friend's father is gone....the Gabbai of our old shul (we moved 2 years ago)....the husband of my niece's principal....DH's R"Y and his wife (we saw him just a few weeks before at a wedding)....My parents' Rav.....it's just too painful to contemplate. And ludicrous to compare to the flu and say it's the same.

Chayalle

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:43 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

I had the virus in late March, and I still feel like my sense of smell is not at 100%, plus certain foods have a funny, off taste to them that I never experienced before. It's not even a major health/functioning issue, but it's quality of life for me.

(I don't mean to complain - Chasdei Hashem that we are alive and well! But yes, there do seem to be long-term effects to the virus, totally unlike the flu.)

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:50 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

It's not the mask, it's me. I wear the mask under my nose while walking, and pull it up if I pass another person. I also have to wear it all the way up on the bus. If the streets are empty, I will take it off.

I've even had to change my bus stops, because my apartment is on the side of a hill. I walk down hill to catch the bus, and on my way home I go 5 stops further to get to the top of the hill and walk down, even though it's longer.

The good news is that the makolet is at the top of the hill, so I get groceries when I get off the bus, and I walk downhill instead of having to lug things uphill.

amother

Jade

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 9:58 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

I chose a city with a high infection rate. It's quite likely over 50% of NYC had the virus but that's not the case in other cities. The death rate for the US is over 5% if you divided deaths by positive cases. Yes there are unaccounted for cases but not the entire population of the US.

nchr

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 10:01 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

Yes it's more infectious in a shul than outdoors at a protest. It's also more infectious in a nightclub or bar where thete is singing and chanting. Outdoors carries a low risk of transmission. Most infections can be tied to indoor superspreading events. Indoor protesting would be extremely high risk. The sleepway camp day camp has to do with daycare issues.

Last edited by nchr on Fri, Jun 26 2020, 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Copper

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 10:01 am

shoshanim999 wrote:

You're completely out of line.

Nobody is saying deaths are "acceptable". We are comparing the severity of covid vs flu. That's all.

...and there is no comparison, so trying to downplay the seriousness of COVID-19 is essentially saying that it's okay if people die, as long as no one steps on your toes and asks you to stay home.

amother

Smokey

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 10:06 am

[quote="amother [ Copper ]"]Still, I think it means Hashem is trying to tell us something.

Israel's numbers stayed low until schools reopened, and even then they didn't rise until there was talk of extending the school year.

Yesterday there were 668 new cases in one day. Evidently Hashem is trying to tell them something - maybe "keep your schools closed"? We don't need to know why Hashem is doing something but it's always smart to take hints before they become hard slaps.[/quote][u]

So what is hashem telling us? It's been over 3 months and you say hashem is telling us....."something". If I ask 10 different rabbanim I'll get 11 different answers. Anything from talking in shul, cell phones in shul, weddings were to extravagant, to women need to...(fill in the blank).

Look, if we don't know what the message is then there's no message. Do you know what the message is? And by the way, once you're telling me the message, can you tell me what the messages were during any of the terrible and tragic events that have happened throughout our history? In fact can you tell me what the message was in any single one of those terrible events?

amother

Natural

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 10:13 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Currently the recovery rate in America is 41% so you have a greater chance to recover than to die. But why are you disregarding all the problems surrounding covid19 mentioned upthread?

amother

Jade

Fri, Jun 26 2020, 10:19 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

Currently the recovery rate in America is 41% so you have a greater chance to recover than to die. But why are you disregarding all the problems surrounding covid19 mentioned upthread?

Which problems? I was addressing one item which was poor math and incorrect data. I was not responding to or addressing any other parts of this thread.