Home

Realistic Aliyah
1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries and Aliyah Questions


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 4:31 am
It's not news that there has been a surge in interest in Aliyah. I think NBN said they have gotten triple the amount of usual applications in recent months. Adorably, the Israeli government actually thinks that will translate into triple the amount of Olim in the coming year.

I think people are scared of the chaos (not just Corona, but riots) and they want to run from it to perceived safety. I think in some ways their whole world has come collapsing down around them. And some people are realizing now that they were living in an illusion of control, when really Hashem is in control, and always was. Some people are thinking, if we have nothing left here, we might as well go to Israel and have nothing there. I think some of those people are going to calm down in the coming months and not follow through with their Aliyah plans. Some, but not all.

As much as I love Israel and think Yidden should live here, and make sacrifices to do so, aliyah has to be intellectual, not emotional (only). If you could delineate the proper criteria for a successful aliyah, what would it be?
Back to top

essie14




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 4:41 am
This is by no means an exhaustive list, but this is what I would say.
1. A plan. What will each of the spouses be doing? What will all the children be doing?
What type of housing do you need? What's your budget? What's your plan for staying within your budget?

2. A good attitude. I think olim from N. America need to come with the attitude of "I'm not running away, I'm coming to Israel to be a productive member of society"
Dont expect israelis to conform to you. Dont expect the bureaucracy to be the same as in your country of origin.
We love olim but we are not kissing your feet and making every hurdle disappear.
We will help as much as we can but immigrating is hard and immigrants need to understand that.

I'm sure I'll have more to add as the thread evolves Smile
Back to top

amother




Tan
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 4:42 am
I've seen plenty Anglos make aliyah over the years. The overwhelming majority of those who were successful (ie integrated into society, are financially sound etc) LEARNED HEBREW. The majority of those who still struggle or retreated to an 'anglo bubble' are those who didn't learn the language.
Back to top

amother




Pewter
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 4:45 am
Only come with older kids if they WANT to come. Don't drag unwilling teens to a foreign country. They will move back the moment they can.
Back to top

amother




Magenta
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 4:49 am
From someone who came with kids of all ages:
Have realistic expectations.
You're moving across the world. It's going to be complicated. Anticipate dislocation.
Learn Hebrew. Have a financial cushion for the first few months.
Recently someone posted that she can't believe her new olah daughter got a ticket for jaywalking. That kind of attitude isn't going to make it easy.
Don't constantly harp about how much better life used to be. (Read the parsha for reinforcement on that.)
Plan a lot of family togetherness. Your kids will need you.

Israelis are kind and helpful, but they're not going to fall all over you just because you made aliyah. They have seen that before.

And most importantly, keep your eyes on the big picture. You're here to be part of the Jewish people. You have the extraordinary privilege to be part of the greatest process in 2000 years. You can hop on a plane and do what Moshe Rabbenu could not. We're so fortunate.
Back to top

Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 4:50 am
I think there are a few phases in life that are good opportunities for aliya:
- study in Israel and stay there
- find a job first, know how much it pays, know your costs, go...
- speak & read hebrew
- have your chilldren make aliya and follow (this is quite frequent where I live, the young generation likes to live in Israel)
- go when you don't need to earn money, after retirement, when you have a fixed income
Back to top

grace413




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 4:56 am
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:


And most importantly, keep your eyes on the big picture. You're here to be part of the Jewish people. You have the extraordinary privilege to be part of the greatest process in 2000 years. You can hop on a plane and do what Moshe Rabbenu could not. We're so fortunate.


Amen.
Back to top

israelmama




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 5:06 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
I've seen plenty Anglos make aliyah over the years. The overwhelming majority of those who were successful (ie integrated into society, are financially sound etc) LEARNED HEBREW. The majority of those who still struggle or retreated to an 'anglo bubble' are those who didn't learn the language.


This. There are those who try to learn but have a difficult time (age, disability etc.) but then there are those who come with an attitude that I can speak English and I won’t even attempt to learn Hebrew... The Anglo bubble doesn’t work well here... You will always be crippled if you can’t speak basic Hebrew just to get around .
Back to top

Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 5:11 am
I think people here made good points about attitude. Most people focus on the financial aspect of Aliyah, but many Aliyahs are not successful because of the attitude of the olim. I can think offhand of people who insist on buying only American products, having American products bought in for them, people who flew in to America have dental work done, or to have all their babies...
Back to top

Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 5:18 am
Success10 wrote:
I think people here made good points about attitude. Most people focus on the financial aspect of Aliyah, but many Aliyahs are not successful because of the attitude of the olim. I can think offhand of people who insist on buying only American products, having American products bought in for them, people who flew in to America have dental work done, or to have all their babies...


Oh?
I did not even think that was a possibility...

To be so closed-minded to think that everywhere in the world, including Israel, is exactly like the USA...

On the other hand, to those who say language is so important: I have the impression that there is a huge anglo-bubble e.g. in Jerusalem, where middle-aged and older people get around quite well without really speaking hebrew...
Back to top

Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 5:25 am
Here, this is the NBN report on increased interest in Aliyah: http://www.israelnationalnews......82649

People are scared. Some are saying that the US is headed for full on Civil War. It sounds far-fetched, but if that idea held some weight, should people abandon careful planning and just hop on the Aliyah plane?


Last edited by Success10 on Mon, Jun 29 2020, 5:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

israelmama




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 5:26 am
Ora in town wrote:
Oh?
I did not even think that was a possibility...

To be so closed-minded to think that everywhere in the world, including Israel, is exactly like the USA...

On the other hand, to those who say language is so important: I have the impression that there is a huge anglo-bubble e.g. in Jerusalem, where middle-aged and older people get around quite well without really speaking hebrew...


Yes you can get around without speaking Hebrew but it’s the attitude and mindset that makes a difference. It’s one thing to try to learn but to come here with attitude that I’m never learning Hebrew because I’ll just get around in English will be difficult. As stated before, it makes someone crippled. You can get around day to day but there are government offices and other offices that would be extremely challenging if you only speak English.
Back to top

Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 5:29 am
Elderly people make aliyah, often, because they have kids already in Israel that can help them out. They also don't have to worry about young children being traumatized by the culture and language clash. So, yes, elderly people can have a successful aliyah without a great spoken Hebrew, but only if they have family in Israel, and they are financially set.
Back to top

Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 5:33 am
Ora in town wrote:
Oh?
I did not even think that was a possibility...

To be so closed-minded to think that everywhere in the world, including Israel, is exactly like the USA...

On the other hand, to those who say language is so important: I have the impression that there is a huge anglo-bubble e.g. in Jerusalem, where middle-aged and older people get around quite well without really speaking hebrew...


That works until they want to get a job. There are a very limited amount of jobs where you can work exclusively in English. Even jobs which require English, like high tech, also require hebrew to interact with your colleagues. If you are sending children to school and need to be able to communicate with teachers it is even worse.

For retirees it is easier to manage without Hebrew, but even then you need to interact with doctors, banks, shops, etc. They can live in an Anglo-bubble, but are handicapped the moment they try to move out of it. Their Israeli grandchildren may speak Hebrew much better than English, and then communication within the family is handicapped.
Back to top

amother




Tan
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 6:35 am
Elfrida wrote:
That works until they want to get a job. There are a very limited amount of jobs where you can work exclusively in English. Even jobs which require English, like high tech, also require hebrew to interact with your colleagues. If you are sending children to school and need to be able to communicate with teachers it is even worse.

For retirees it is easier to manage without Hebrew, but even then you need to interact with doctors, banks, shops, etc. They can live in an Anglo-bubble, but are handicapped the moment they try to move out of it. Their Israeli grandchildren may speak Hebrew much better than English, and then communication within the family is handicapped.


This. Btw when I originally spoke about those who only speak English, I was referring to people aged 20s-40s who think they don't need to learn Hebrew.

Obviously a pensioner who makes aliyah is unlikely to become very fluent. Although it reminds me of a few shabbos tables I sat at where bubby or zaidy sat to the side in silence while all their kids and grandkids chatted animatedly in Hebrew. It's pretty depressing.
Back to top

Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 6:43 am
When I was first entertaining the idea of aliyah, I mentioned it to a mentor figure, and she scoffed at me completely.

"Only make Aliyah is you feel you can't live anywhere else in the world. Because Aliyah will chew you up and spit you out."

Although her perspective was a little cynical, it did put me in the right frame of mind. When I came, I was prepared for the first 5 years to be absolutely terrible, before I would even consider whether Aliyah wasn't for me. BH, things improved before then, but I think that's not a bad mindset for olim to have.
Back to top

Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 6:47 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
This. Btw when I originally spoke about those who only speak English, I was referring to people aged 20s-40s who think they don't need to learn Hebrew.

Obviously a pensioner who makes aliyah is unlikely to become very fluent. Although it reminds me of a few shabbos tables I sat at where bubby or zaidy sat to the side in silence while all their kids and grandkids chatted animatedly in Hebrew. It's pretty depressing.


Or the parents. It's so important to make an effort to bridge that gap when you're raising your children in a different culture than yours. Parents have to be able to understand and communicate in that culture (and language is a part of that), or they'll have a great divide between them and their children.
Back to top

Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 6:53 am
No one sits down and opens the conversation in Hebrew when the grandparent who doesn't speak Hebrew is there. But after a few minutes carefully speaking english, a hebrew word or phrase creeps in, then someone can't express what they want in English, so they throw in a couple of sentences in Hebrew, and without even noticing someone else responds in hebrew - and without anyone even noticing, the entire conversation switched languages.

I'm not Israeli, but when speaking on the phone to my parents I sometimes have to stop and look for the English word, because I am so used to the hebrew one. Its only when talking to them that I realize how much Hebrew is integrated into my English.
Back to top

Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 6:56 am
Rappel wrote:
Or the parents. It's so important to make an effort to bridge that gap when you're raising your children in a different culture than yours. Parents have to be able to understand and communicate in that culture (and language is a part of that), or they'll have a great divide between them and their children.


I've also seen very animated conversations with a parent speaking english and the child responding in Hebrew. Each understand the other, but use the language that is easiest for them.
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 7:25 am
I think it boils down to, see Israel as a place where people live daily life, beyond being Eretz Yisrael/the Jewish state.

Don't expect to immediately feel at home because you're Jewish and this is the Jewish state. This is not America (or Britain, South Africa, Sweden, etc), the culture and language and way of doing everything from school to healthcare to taxes is not the American way, and there will be an adjustment period.

Don't expect to always feel safe here because you're Jewish and this is the Jewish state. We're as subject to global upheaval here as in most Western countries; there are riots over racism here, too (not at this particular moment, but you can't rely on it never happening here); we've had serious crises that our government hasn't been able to fix/has failed to address. Most of us have been on the wrong end of rocket fire at least a few times.

Don't expect to at least not stand out for being Jewish. No matter where you are on the religious spectrum, there will be people to the left of you who think you're an extremist, and people to the right of you who think you're dangerously Westernized.

I'm all for people making aliyah! But it's not like moving from, say, a Jewish neighborhood of NYC to a Jewish suburb in New Jersey. It's a whole other country.

Also, it helps to show respect, and not immediately reject the Israeli way of doing things. When Israel does things differently than America, there's usually a reason for that. Sometimes it's even a good reason.
Back to top
1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 1 of 4 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries and Aliyah Questions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Want to make Aliyah but scared
by amother
110 Today at 8:32 am View last post
Making Aliyah: What to bring and what to buy there? 37 Thu, Jul 02 2020, 4:25 am View last post
Making Aliyah when older
by amother
12 Wed, Jul 01 2020, 6:16 am View last post
Making aliyah with money
by amother
27 Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:03 pm View last post
Aliyah - my two cents
by amother
91 Wed, Jun 17 2020, 5:13 am View last post
by DVOM

Jump to: