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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 7:41 am
And now, since I shared the hard parts, a few of the things that are easier:

- I live in a neighborhood with a small religious community, in a largely secular city. The shul we go to is a 7-minute walk away; on the way there, I pass two other active shuls.

Or IOW - there are shuls, mikvas, kosher food, etc, everywhere.

- Torah learning is so much easier when you speak fluent Hebrew. And it starts being easier from a very young age. Kids who are 6-7 years old can pick up a Tanach and start reading.

- Tuition! I pay about $80 per child per month, and that's unusually high, because one kid is registered to a program that includes extra science learning, and another is in a special needs framework that provides several different therapies every week.

- Lifestyle expectations.

- Healthy lifestyle (produce is cheap here, fast food is expensive, and most things are within walking distance.)
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amother




Smokey
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 8:19 am
My mom has been sending me articles about the increase in Aliyah.
I’m an Israeli citizen and would love to move back but I’m open minded and after living here for years, I now understand why so many Americans can’t move to Israel. It’s really not as easy for those who don’t speak the language. Yes, several Olim left their homes and started learning Hebrew in Israel, but it’s not easy to do that unless you’re young and moving without a family. You need to seriously have good jobs and savings in order to move. Many want to escape yeshiva tuition in the US, but guess what.... israel has other crazy expenses... even food... the one thing that is essential is expensive! Houses, cars, I just realized how living there is much more expensive. In reality, nefesh or Jewish agency doesn’t really help Olim financially, yes it’s better than nothing, but you really need a financial plan. You have to move with enough savings and hope you get a good job. That’s how I see it.
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SacN




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 9:44 am
Quote:

Obviously a pensioner who makes aliyah is unlikely to become very fluent. Although it reminds me of a few shabbos tables I sat at where bubby or zaidy sat to the side in silence while all their kids and grandkids chatted animatedly in Hebrew. It's pretty depressing


Geeze, ladies. As a lone olah who came with no extended family, then dragged a sister (by introducing her to her husband), and who's parents are planning retirement here (because their kids are here now), this scenario is the opposite of depressing.

What most olim would give to have Mom and Dad at the shabbos table! To have time (even imperfect) with the grandchildren! My parents don't speak a word of Hebrew and frankly I don't see it improving much after they move, but my kids speak enough English and have enough middos to be as considerate as possible, and EVERYONE at the table is just so grateful to be there and to have everyone together. We will help them. It won't be perfect. But really, depressing?

Depressing is retiring to Florida or Arizona alone when your kids live halfway across the world. It's flying to put your parents in nursing homes where they won't have you visiting. It's hearing at 3am that your aging parent fell, and waiting to hear news because theres nothing you can do. That's depressing.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 9:47 am
SacN wrote:
Quote:

Obviously a pensioner who makes aliyah is unlikely to become very fluent. Although it reminds me of a few shabbos tables I sat at where bubby or zaidy sat to the side in silence while all their kids and grandkids chatted animatedly in Hebrew. It's pretty depressing


Geeze, ladies. As a lone olah who came with no extended family, then dragged a sister (by introducing her to her husband), and who's parents are planning retirement here (because their kids are here now), this scenario is the opposite of depressing.

What most olim would give to have Mom and Dad at the shabbos table! To have time (even imperfect) with the grandchildren! My parents don't speak a word of Hebrew and frankly I don't see it improving much after they move, but my kids speak enough English and have enough middos to be as considerate as possible, and EVERYONE at the table is just so grateful to be there and to have everyone together. We will help them. It won't be perfect. But really, depressing?

Depressing is retiring to Florida or Arizona alone when your kids live halfway across the world. It's flying to put your parents in nursing homes where they won't have you visiting. It's hearing at 3am that your aging parent fell, and waiting to hear news because theres nothing you can do. That's depressing.


Well said! And I'm really happy your family is coming Smile iyh by all of us!
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 9:48 am
SacN wrote:
What most olim would give to have Mom and Dad at the shabbos table!

Um, me? My parents aren't religious and my kids speak no English. It's terrible when they come for their yearly visit. Even families with great middos who enjoy their grandparents' company don't always have the energy (or ability) to keep the conversation in English. My parents enjoy their life in chutz l'aretz and I'm glad they can visit once a year and go home again.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 9:54 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Um, me? My parents aren't religious and my kids speak no English. It's terrible when they come for their yearly visit. Even families with great middos who enjoy their grandparents' company don't always have the energy (or ability) to keep the conversation in English. My parents enjoy their life in chutz l'aretz and I'm glad they can visit once a year and go home again.


My kids speak pidgin English, and Pop still doesn't understand what they say LOL they make it work with lots of food and tickle monsters. I can't wait until he finally stays.
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SacN




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 9:55 am
As for what I think you need before you can come?

Endurance, preservence, flexibility. Social support of some kind is crucial - family, friends, community. A good sense of humor. Research (schools, neighborhoods, friends, shuls).

Everything else can come with time.

We moved to Israel with no money. We had no money in New York either. Believe it or not, career prospects were (are) better here and our circumstances improved with time. The Sal klita and tax benefits helped tremendously. We were smart and careful and planned. Was it tight? Yes. But it was tight before aliyah also.

I spoke no Hebrew. It was really hard. But now I speak Hebrew. I broke my teeth. It came with time.
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SacN




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 10:00 am
Quote:

Um, me? My parents aren't religious and my kids speak no English. It's terrible when they come for their yearly visit. Even families with great middos who enjoy their grandparents' company don't always have the energy (or ability) to keep the conversation in English. My parents enjoy their life in chutz l'aretz and I'm glad they can visit once a year and go home again.


I didn't ask who wouldn't want it. I said most (frum) olim would.

For what it's worth, my parents aren't religious either, nor my in laws. My in laws are Israeli (and live in chul) and it's their visits we find stressful. They speak Hebrew with my kids. It's definitely not about the language.

One day, the yearly visits will become difficult, and eventually stop. Then, I'll be grateful to live nearby.
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amother




Orchid
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 10:25 am
SacN wrote:
As for what I think you need before you can come?

Endurance, preservence, flexibility. Social support of some kind is crucial - family, friends, community. A good sense of humor. Research (schools, neighborhoods, friends, shuls).

Everything else can come with time.

We moved to Israel with no money. We had no money in New York either. Believe it or not, career prospects were (are) better here and our circumstances improved with time. The Sal klita and tax benefits helped tremendously. We were smart and careful and planned. Was it tight? Yes. But it was tight before aliyah also.

I spoke no Hebrew. It was really hard. But now I speak Hebrew. I broke my teeth. It came with time.


How old were you and your children when you came? Did you and your husband have jobs/education that were helpful to you in Israel?

Sorry for all the questions! I am the OP of the aliya to RBS thread and really want this to work.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 10:28 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
How old were you and your children when you came? Did you and your husband have jobs/education that were helpful to you in Israel?

Sorry for all the questions! I am the OP of the aliya to RBS thread and really want this to work.


I made aliyah as a teen. You can PM me for any questions...
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SacN




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 10:39 am
Quote:

How old were you and your children when you came? Did you and your husband have jobs/education that were helpful to you in Israel?

Sorry for all the questions! I am the OP of the aliya to RBS thread and really want this to work


I was 23, my husband was 29. I had a two year old, and was 31 weeks pregnant with #2. We both had degrees, he had a graduate degree and plans to work in his specific field. We are Anglo charedi baalei teshuva.

Happy to answer more specific questions privately. PM me.
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amother




Orchid
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 10:43 am
LovesHashem and SacN, thanks for your offers of help but I think I need help from people who made aliya at an older age. I'm in my late 30's and my husband is in his early 40's. Most of our kids are teenagers.
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 10:56 am
Quote:
Don't expect to always feel safe here because you're Jewish and this is the Jewish state.


This was a huge mistake of me when I was visiting the first time . Oh boy what was I naive I was safe as a young BT in her early 20s with golden blond hair and blue eyes... An easy catch of frum looking yeshiva bocherim who ''wanted to walk me back home'' and who were really pushy...

How I was surprised no single Israeli cared that I don't know the language, that I didn't know how to get the right public transport card and were threatening aggressively me to push me out of the train. I thought, I'm Jewish I'm sweet and innocent and the card automat is in Hebrew? I don't deserve to be spoken like this! I didn't feel safe I was immensely afraid they will grab me and throw me out with my suitcases.

I need to say before my marriage I never had extendend family in Israel now I have, my peers were mostly showboating with me about how I would find Israel fan-tas-tic and how I would feel home... Tbh I never felt home in Israel.
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SacN




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 11:06 am
Quote:

LovesHashem and SacN, thanks for your offers of help but I think I need help from people who made aliya at an older age. I'm in my late 30's and my husband is in his early 40's. Most of our kids are teenagers


I'd be happy to connect you with people I know who've done that too, if it's helpful.
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 11:16 am
Re: making Aliyah in Golden years.
My grandmother made Aliyah in her 60s. Most of her children were living in Israel, she owned an apartment and had spent many months out of the year here before.
She never learned Hebrew but she was able to live independently all the doctors or dentists etc she dealt with spoke English. Her cleaner spoke a very basic English but that was enough. She had tons of family around her and friends from back home. All the grandchildren spoke English - the awkward Shabbat meals described here started only when grandchildren-in-law and great grandchildren came into the picture, it was an issue but we did make it work (a lot of times it was the grandson in law who alienated at the table because we spoke in English).
Later in life it was amazing to be close and to have children and grandchildren around to deal with medical issues and to keep her company.
She loved living in Israel and with family and was proud to be an Israeli even with the language barrier. She was especially proud of her grandsons who served in the IDF. She did like to buy American food items she liked from home, I lived with her for several years while I was in college and it was sort of like living in America. There was a balance between America and Israel. Thinking about her staying in the US in a home all alone like many of my friends’ grandparents is depressing with their children coming in once a year and without really knowing their grandchildren.
She lived here for 22 years until she passed away in her late 80s. I’m so happy she came here and made Israel her home.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 11:37 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
LovesHashem and SacN, thanks for your offers of help but I think I need help from people who made aliya at an older age. I'm in my late 30's and my husband is in his early 40's. Most of our kids are teenagers.


Aha but I WAS a teen who made aliyah- like your kids. So I can shed some light on what it looks like making aliyah as a teen, some issues that come with it, etc. So you can gain more insight perhaps on what what works for your teens or not.
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amother




Aubergine
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 11:59 am
israelmama wrote:
Yes you can get around without speaking Hebrew but it’s the attitude and mindset that makes a difference. It’s one thing to try to learn but to come here with attitude that I’m never learning Hebrew because I’ll just get around in English will be difficult. As stated before, it makes someone crippled. You can get around day to day but there are government offices and other offices that would be extremely challenging if you only speak English.

We have this attitude in the US as well with people who come from Spanish speaking countries. It is totally possible to get around without ever learning English but looked down upon by Americans. I’m assuming it’s similar. What’s the best way to learn Hebrew? Ulpan classes or something else?
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amother




Orchid
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 12:02 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
Aha but I WAS a teen who made aliyah- like your kids. So I can shed some light on what it looks like making aliyah as a teen, some issues that come with it, etc. So you can gain more insight perhaps on what what works for your teens or not.


Thank you. One of my high school daughter's expressed worry about being looked down upon. In her words "a nerd". All of my kids are worried about learning hebrew. My kids are bright and do well in school except in hebrew language. I think it's because of the lousy way hebrew is taught in the american bais yaakov school system. My boys don't learn any practical hebrew at all.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 12:08 pm
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
We have this attitude in the US as well with people who come from Spanish speaking countries. It is totally possible to get around without ever learning English but looked down upon by Americans. I’m assuming it’s similar. What’s the best way to learn Hebrew? Ulpan classes or something else?


You'll roll your eyes at me, but immersion is the m really the best way. Hearing Hebrew day in, day out, and trying to read newspapers and articles, forms and letters, your brain stats to open up after 3 months, and it sucks in words like a sponge.

Until you can get here, though, Duolingo has an excellent Hebrew course that will easily get you to a workable level of Hebrew, and listening to Hebrew radio, or watching Hebrew shows with Hebrew subtitles, will definitely teach you.

Ulpan is good for fine-tuning your grammar and vocabulary after you've already broken your teeth, but it alone won't teach you to speak Hebrew.
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Teomima




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 12:18 pm
I came here thirty years ago. There was one channel on TV (aptly named "Channel One"). There were two kinds of cheese: white cheese and yellow cheese. All milk came in bags (yeah yeah, Canadians, I know you pride yourself on that one). The buses were red and white and you paid with a punch card; every driver had their own unique shaped hole puncher. Kibbutzim were stil kibbutzim, Ramat Beit Shemesh didn't exist, and no one had home computers, much less internet. Fax machines were all the rage as far as fancy modern technology allowing quick communication with people back in the States.

Oh, and no Nefesh b'Nefesh.

Back then there was no way to make Aliyah and expect American products and other familiar creature comforts. You knew what you were getting into. You knew you were coming for an entirely new lifestyle. You had to sort out a job, because there was no such thing as telecommuting. You had to learn the language, because finding fellow English speakers was like looking for a needle in a haystack, unless you knew exactly where to look. You'd manage better if you spoke Russian than English, there were so many people coming in from the USSR (which still existed at the time).

Why am I reminiscing like this? Because it's really key. If you come here wanting/expecting a detached home and two minivans and an American income and cheddar cheese well yes, you can find all these things here. But it's not realistic. Come in expecting to live like Israelis: small apartment, one car if that, enough money to hopefully make ends meet but only if you live within your means, and yeah sure splurge on cheddar every now and then, but also get used to emek. And yes, Amazon and Next and iherb are great, but they're bonuses. Chuparim, as we'd say. Make sure you can make do with Rami Levy, Max Stock, Fox and Fox Home (but feel free to enjoy Ikea!) And of course, learn (and use!) Hebrew!

ETA:
People seem to be understanding what I'm saying to mean this WILL be your lifestyle and you should only shop local (though in these hard times that's not a bad idea) and that your life WILL be hard. That's not what I'm saying at all! I'm just saying be mentally prepared for a very different lifestyle from that you might be accustomed to. Maybe you WILL get that same lifestyle and all the more power to you! I just believe for successful long term Aliyah you need to be realistic about many of the differences in cultures and resources, and what you can expect.


Last edited by Teomima on Mon, Jun 29 2020, 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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