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Realistic Aliyah
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 29 2020, 7:52 pm
Teomima wrote:
(In response to the bolded above:) Of course a lot of people have that lifestyle! It's one of the amazing things about Israel, you have everything from the sunny beaches to the scorching desert to the green mountain rivers, all within a three hour drive from one another. Likewise you have people living all sorts of lifestyles: families with ten kids in four bedrooms, families with ten bedrooms and four kids. I'm not saying you can't find your dream home and dream car(s)! This thread is about realistic Aliyah and I think to be successful at Aliyah you have to know you might be living a very different lifestyle from that you're accustomed to. You have to be prepared for that potential reality. I'm in no way saying that will be your reality, but if someone comes and gets that detached home with a yard then loses their job and can't afford it, you don't want that to be a reason for Aliyah to have been unsuccessful. You just want to be prepared that life might take you in a different direction.

Life in Israel can be quite hard and it's not that easy to make ends meet. In most families, both parents work.

On the other hand there is good childcare from a young age...

I have a friend who lives in modiin, 3 bedroom flat with garden, 4 children in public school, 2 cars (for the past 5 years or so), she and her husband both work 100% (in Jerusalem and tel aviv or so), family vacations abroad perhaps once a year, perhaps less... She is happy there, she made aliya right after school and never looked back... But she also says it's hard... She has been getting up at 5 am for the past 20 years or so... because she wanted a 100% job where she could be back at home when the children came back from school...
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essie14




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 12:37 am
Ora in town wrote:
Life in Israel can be quite hard and it's not that easy to make ends meet. In most families, both parents work.

On the other hand there is good childcare from a young age...

I have a friend who lives in modiin, 3 bedroom flat with garden, 4 children in public school, 2 cars (for the past 5 years or so), she and her husband both work 100% (in Jerusalem and tel aviv or so), family vacations abroad perhaps once a year, perhaps less... She is happy there, she made aliya right after school and never looked back... But she also says it's hard... She has been getting up at 5 am for the past 20 years or so... because she wanted a 100% job where she could be back at home when the children came back from school...

It's hard because life with kids is hard. How is her situation specific to Israel? My friends in America have this exact lifestyle as well. Many working moms wake up at 5 am.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:00 am
Ora in town wrote:
Life in Israel can be quite hard and it's not that easy to make ends meet. In most families, both parents work.

On the other hand there is good childcare from a young age...

I have a friend who lives in modiin, 3 bedroom flat with garden, 4 children in public school, 2 cars (for the past 5 years or so), she and her husband both work 100% (in Jerusalem and tel aviv or so), family vacations abroad perhaps once a year, perhaps less... She is happy there, she made aliya right after school and never looked back... But she also says it's hard... She has been getting up at 5 am for the past 20 years or so... because she wanted a 100% job where she could be back at home when the children came back from school...
Ora in Town, I agree with essie. Those are not things that are specific to Israel. And no, not everyone struggles. Many do, but again, that is not specific to Israel either.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:11 am
amother [ Pewter ] wrote:
Jerusalem is one of the poorest cities in Israel (maybe after Bnei Brak) - so I'm assuming that affects car ownership rates. Plus it's a city, so people need cars less than they do in yeshuvim.

This. Jerusalem is not representative of all of Israel, just like Brooklyn is not the USA.
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:17 am
Teomima wrote:
That's surprising to me, I know far more families that have no car than I do that have two. But then again, I live in Jerusalem, and have for many years, so that could skew my perspective.

As for the delivery options, I know people use them here, I do myself all the time! I never said not to. What I said was to make sure you can do without them. So say someone moved here when Amazon still had free delivery and became accustomed to expecting access to the same products they bought before making Aliyah. Then they're suddenly cut off from that resource when Amazon stopped free shipping. You don't want that to be an issue in your ability to acclimate to life in Israel. Be sure you view access to these resources as bonuses and not take them for granted, leaving you lost in the dust should they suddenly end.

You live in a city of course many people don’t have cars or only have one car. In my Yeshuv I think everyone owns a car and many families (like mine) own two cars.
It’s like comparing NYC with suburban NJ.
Most of the Israelis I know like shopping online, we are all disappointed Amazon stopped shopping here with reasonable prices, but were realize toss is just one of the many prices we are paying for corona-life. I also found your description of Aliyah 30 years ago not to reflect my experience, living in an Anglo area - my parents made Aliyah more than 40 years ago. But I’m sure things were and are different in different areas of the country.
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SacN




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 3:50 am
Quote:
If someone comes and gets that detached home with a yard then loses their job and can't afford it, you don't want that to be a reason for Aliyah to have been unsuccessful. You just want to be prepared that life might take you in a different direction.


Personally, I think this can happen anyway. Anywhere. You always need to be prepared for life to take you in crazy directions.

That's how I ended up in Israel. Smile
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Teomima




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 4:07 am
chanchy123 wrote:
You live in a city of course many people don’t have cars or only have one car. In my Yeshuv I think everyone owns a car and many families (like mine) own two cars.
It’s like comparing NYC with suburban NJ.
Most of the Israelis I know like shopping online, we are all disappointed Amazon stopped shopping here with reasonable prices, but were realize toss is just one of the many prices we are paying for corona-life. I also found your description of Aliyah 30 years ago not to reflect my experience, living in an Anglo area - my parents made Aliyah more than 40 years ago. But I’m sure things were and are different in different areas of the country.

Again, I never said people won't have two cars here. All I said in my post was that people shouldn't expect to live the same as they're accustomed to before making Aliyah. Statistically speaking there are an average of 1.88 cars per household in the US (as of 2017). Statistically speaking, while of course there are two-car families in Israel, there are far fewer.

I don't know why everyone keeps thinking I said you won't have these things in Israel. I never said that. I said come in with the mindset of not necessarily expecting those things; don't assume you'll have them for sure. Being prepared to possibly be in a small apartment, have one car if that, etc, doesn't mean you won't have them. Just being in that frame of mind will help set you up for greater success here.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 4:20 am
I'm with Teomima on this one. I grew up in Europe and we were relatively wealthy. Coming to Israel involved a big adjustment in my expectations. I think it's harder for Americans because America is so consumerist and most things are of better quality (my family would travel to the US with empty suitcases for a shopping frenzy because of the difference compared to what we have back home). I lived in a caravan in Israel, worked as a cleaning lady, basically did loads of stuff I wouldn't have dreamed of in the Old Country. Sure there are wealthy Americans here (at one stage I fantasized about marrying a rich American guy when I came to Israel lol) who have big cars and swimming pools etc (I saw an ariel view of RBS which was positively covered with swimming pools). But I don't think it necessarily reflects your 'ordinary Israeli'.
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amother




Periwinkle
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 5:23 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
I'm with Teomima on this one. I grew up in Europe and we were relatively wealthy. Coming to Israel involved a big adjustment in my expectations. I think it's harder for Americans because America is so consumerist and most things are of better quality (my family would travel to the US with empty suitcases for a shopping frenzy because of the difference compared to what we have back home). I lived in a caravan in Israel, worked as a cleaning lady, basically did loads of stuff I wouldn't have dreamed of in the Old Country. Sure there are wealthy Americans here (at one stage I fantasized about marrying a rich American guy when I came to Israel lol) who have big cars and swimming pools etc (I saw an ariel view of RBS which was positively covered with swimming pools). But I don't think it necessarily reflects your 'ordinary Israeli'.

RBS? Theres like maybe 5 swimming pools here. unless you mean intex pools that people set up for the summer Very Happy

Maybe you mean Bet shemesh? Definitely more private pools there.
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champion




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 5:37 am
When you make Aliya expect all Shalom Bayis/Personality/Emotional issues to get worse. MUCH MUCH WORSE
That is not say that you have to have a perfect marriage. But you do need to have a good communications and repair system.
Any abusive, dysfunction or neglectful dendencies will get worse.
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 5:39 am
champion wrote:
When you make Aliya expect all Shalom Bayis/Personality/Emotional issues to get worse. MUCH MUCH WORSE
That is not say that you have to have a perfect marriage. But you do need to have a good communications and repair system.
Any abusive, dysfunction or neglectful dendencies will get worse.


Ok, that's a bit of an extreme statement. Did you mean short term while the family adjusts to the move, or forever?
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champion




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 5:47 am
Success10 wrote:
Ok, that's a bit of an extreme statement.


Its really not.
why do you say that?
I personally have witnessed this with many many people I know.
Yeh.... I unfortunately know to many dysfunctional families.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 5:52 am
champion wrote:
When you make Aliya expect all Shalom Bayis/Personality/Emotional issues to get worse. MUCH MUCH WORSE
That is not say that you have to have a perfect marriage. But you do need to have a good communications and repair system.
Any abusive, dysfunction or neglectful dendencies will get worse.


Any big change can stress a marriage - like having a baby, or moving to a new house, or changing jobs.

Don't make aliyah to save a messed up relationship any more than you would have a baby to save a marriage. That's not going to work.

But don't avoid making a wonderful change out of fear. A healthy relationship will only be strengthened by facing challenges together.
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 5:56 am
champion wrote:
Its really not.
why do you say that?
I personally have witnessed this with many many people I know.
Yeh.... I unfortunately know to many dysfunctional families.


Trust me, I know plenty of dysfunction too. I agree people suffering severe dysfunction in their lives should not make aliyah. But if there are some typical issues of shalom bayis or other such things, I don't think that alone should be a reason not to make aliyah.
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champion




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 6:06 am
That is basically what I said.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 9:07 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
I'm with Teomima on this one. I grew up in Europe and we were relatively wealthy. Coming to Israel involved a big adjustment in my expectations. I think it's harder for Americans because America is so consumerist and most things are of better quality (my family would travel to the US with empty suitcases for a shopping frenzy because of the difference compared to what we have back home). I lived in a caravan in Israel, worked as a cleaning lady, basically did loads of stuff I wouldn't have dreamed of in the Old Country. Sure there are wealthy Americans here (at one stage I fantasized about marrying a rich American guy when I came to Israel lol) who have big cars and swimming pools etc (I saw an ariel view of RBS which was positively covered with swimming pools). But I don't think it necessarily reflects your 'ordinary Israeli'.
not undergroubd perminent ones. Possibly the kind you fill for the summer and empty out after, above ground.
Rbs is most definitely not covered with swimming pools Smile

And owning 2 cars and a pool has nothing to do with being a rich american. Go to places like casaria or hertzeliya pituach. Then talk about rich Smile
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amother




Firebrick
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 10:01 am
If you have any money, how do you bring it to Israel? How much cash is allowed upon entry; do you have access to American bank accounts, or have to transfer to some Israeli or international bank?
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 10:43 am
amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:
If you have any money, how do you bring it to Israel? How much cash is allowed upon entry; do you have access to American bank accounts, or have to transfer to some Israeli or international bank?
I think a universal boarder/traveling rule is one can only be carrying 10k local or less, without declaring it when traveling (locally place you stsrt your trip).
Of course one has access to banks in their home countries. Some people just use atm mschines. Others do large transfers. Its a personal decision really.
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Teomima




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 10:48 am
amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:
If you have any money, how do you bring it to Israel? How much cash is allowed upon entry; do you have access to American bank accounts, or have to transfer to some Israeli or international bank?

Of course you have access to your American accounts (though some remote banking tools, like the Bank of America app, aren't available if you're in Israel). But you can always access your accounts online, telebank via phone calls, and use your cards if you have international credit cards.

There's tax implications though to money in foreign accounts/foreign investments, and if you have over $10,000 in an Israeli account at any point during the year then you have to file an FBAR.

You'd be best off speaking to an accountant that works with American expats. There's plenty of them here (accountants. And expats).
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