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-> Coronavirus Health Questions
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amother
OP
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 Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:19 pm
Here's the deal (short version) - my child has worked in a day camp for years. We finally heard that they were allowed to open, and from the initial things we heard, it sounded like they were going to be careful. Smaller groups, less interaction between groups, masks to be worn by the staff, etc. I wasn't thrilled to hear that gloves were optional (only required when serving food), but I checked with our doctor's office, and was told that as long as there is frequent hand washing and use of hand sanitizer that part should be ok.
Child comes home from first day and we find out that kids aren't really distancing within a bunk, that most of the staff didn't start off the day with masks and other than a few Rebbeim no one wore them by the end of the day. One of the higher ups reminded staff about wearing masks on the bus, but that was it. My child double checked with a higher up and was told that masks are only required for the transportation piece of the day.
!!!
This is VERY outside of what we do at home. Masks, gloves, social distancing - that's us. I've got family members in our house who medically I really don't want to catch it. We've been soooo careful this whole time, but if this child has none of that all day, then that all gets blown away  
My husband and I have made it clear to this child that we want masks worn at camp, even if no one else does. I'm not sure what else - if anything - I can or should do. Someone suggested that we call the camp, but she's a worker , not a camper. It would feel really inappropriate to me to be the mommy calling the kid's boss.
Any and all suggestions appreciated.
I will blee neder not answer any questions regarding which camp this is. Loshen hara was not the point of this post.
TIA
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amother
Goldenrod
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:21 pm
I feel for you. Its very challenging. I would ask my doctor.
hugs and hatzlocha
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watergirl
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:26 pm
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Just re: the gloves, the practice of glove wearing has shown to transmit COVID MORE easily than not wearing gloves. You said you asked your dr and they said to wash hands and use hand sanitizer - I would stick with that.
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FranticFrummie
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:30 pm
I would ask the child if they want to quit.
It doesn't sound like a pleasant atmosphere to be working in, if people care so little about each other's health.
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amother
Vermilion
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:37 pm
Are you me?
My DD, just quit.
She feels it is too hard and social worse for her to be the nerdy one in a mask who is socially isolating while the other counselors are not and would rather not put herself daily in an uncomfortable social situation. She/we are also concerned that the kids don't wear masks, and even though each bunk is considered a family unit, who knows what their parents are doing and what they are bringing with them from home from one day to the next.
It is really hard because now she doesn't know what she is going to do for the summer, but we (she) will figure that out.
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amother
Gold
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:37 pm
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Have you looked at the state guidelines for day camps? I know that in New York, this camp would be following almost all required guidelines but not doing the recommended ones (within bunk no social distancing, staff mask wearing recommended, in public places- such as bus, mask required..)
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nechamashifra
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:53 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | Here's the deal (short version) - my child has worked in a day camp for years. We finally heard that they were allowed to open, and from the initial things we heard, it sounded like they were going to be careful. Smaller groups, less interaction between groups, masks to be worn by the staff, etc. I wasn't thrilled to hear that gloves were optional (only required when serving food), but I checked with our doctor's office, and was told that as long as there is frequent hand washing and use of hand sanitizer that part should be ok.
Child comes home from first day and we find out that kids aren't really distancing within a bunk, that most of the staff didn't start off the day with masks and other than a few Rebbeim no one wore them by the end of the day. One of the higher ups reminded staff about wearing masks on the bus, but that was it. My child double checked with a higher up and was told that masks are only required for the transportation piece of the day.
!!!
This is VERY outside of what we do at home. Masks, gloves, social distancing - that's us. I've got family members in our house who medically I really don't want to catch it. We've been soooo careful this whole time, but if this child has none of that all day, then that all gets blown away
My husband and I have made it clear to this child that we want masks worn at camp, even if no one else does. I'm not sure what else - if anything - I can or should do. Someone suggested that we call the camp, but she's a worker , not a camper. It would feel really inappropriate to me to be the mommy calling the kid's boss.
Any and all suggestions appreciated.
I will blee neder not answer any questions regarding which camp this is. Loshen hara was not the point of this post.
TIA |
In my personal opinion, what you're asking is almost impossible. Yes, masks can help if you're going on a bus or to a grocery store. To go to camp and keep socially distanced and wear a mask all day is not really feasible. The human reflex will take over and at one point, someone is going to touch their face or need to take a break from their mask. Wearing gloves only works if you're going to be changing your gloves every 10 minutes. Sending to camp is going to be a risk no matter how many precautions are taken. If you don't want any small risk, your dc is going to have to stay home.
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SixOfWands
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 2:53 pm
| amother [ Gold ] wrote: | | Have you looked at the state guidelines for day camps? I know that in New York, this camp would be following almost all required guidelines but not doing the recommended ones (within bunk no social distancing, staff mask wearing recommended, in public places- such as bus, mask required..) |
NY requires that, "Any time that employees are less than 6 ft. from each other or interacting with children/campers, they must wear a face covering." "Ensure employees wear face coverings any time they are 6 ft. apart from one another, and at all times when interacting with children/campers, regardless of distance."
So they clearly are not complying, and I'd have to question what else they weren't complying with.
Particularly if there are medically fragile people in your household, I would tel her to quit. I'd tell her even if there weren't -- I don't want my kids thinking that they get to break whatever rules don't suit them at the moment.
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amother
OP
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 3:02 pm
| watergirl wrote: | | Just re: the gloves, the practice of glove wearing has shown to transmit COVID MORE easily than not wearing gloves. You said you asked your dr and they said to wash hands and use hand sanitizer - I would stick with that. |
Interesting - I hadn't heard that. Do you happen to remember where you saw that or have a source for that?
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nechamashifra
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 3:07 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Interesting - I hadn't heard that. Do you happen to remember where you saw that or have a source for that? |
When you wear gloves for one activity (ie a dentist working on a patient) - it makes sense. When you're working in a camp, you're dealing with multiple kids. How is it possible to throw out your gloves and put on new ones with each kid you'll be interacting with, or each surface you touch?
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Simple1
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 3:09 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Interesting - I hadn't heard that. Do you happen to remember where you saw that or have a source for that? |
I can't answer for watergirl. But gloves give a false sense of security. What point is there in coughing into your gloved hand and then touching something else. I'm not crazy about hand sanitizer unless you're not near a sink.
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PinkFridge
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 3:13 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Interesting - I hadn't heard that. Do you happen to remember where you saw that or have a source for that? |
I'm not watergirl but one problem with gloves is people don't put them on like medical professionals do. They touch them all over, then don't clean them afterwards.
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SixOfWands
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 3:13 pm
| Simple1 wrote: | | I can't answer for watergirl. But gloves give a false sense of security. What point is there in coughing into your gloved hand and then touching something else. I'm not crazy about hand sanitizer unless you're not near a sink. |
This.
I don't why it would be worse than bare hands, but its certainly no better. You touch the ball that has covid germs with your glove. You don't change gloves or wash. Then you touch the swings. No different from your hand.
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tichellady
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 3:34 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | This.
I don't why it would be worse than bare hands, but its certainly no better. You touch the ball that has covid germs with your glove. You don't change gloves or wash. Then you touch the swings. No different from your hand. |
Some say viruses stick better to latex than to skin which would make it worse
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amother
Denim
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 3:46 pm
To my knowledge, campers are not required to SD within their own bunks. They're supposed to wear masks if they have to be within 6 feet of other bunks. Counselors have to wear masks, but I think they are excused in extreme heat and in water, except for during transportation. Is your dd's camp outside, by any chance? Rules become less strict if so, and there is more extreme heat.
A lot of my friends who need to maintain strict SD are not sending to camp for these reasons.
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LovesHashem
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 3:50 pm
If you have a cut or wound on your hand - gloves are necessary as viruses can enter through that.
I would tell your DD to quit. Seriously, I would sit her down and ask how she feels, if she can keep guidelines and not be the nerd, or not have her boss upset at her.
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thanks
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 4:36 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | Here's the deal (short version).....
This is VERY outside of what we do at home. Masks, gloves, social distancing - that's us. I've got family members in our house who medically I really don't want to catch it. We've been soooo careful this whole time, but if this child has none of that all day, then that all gets blown away
Any and all suggestions appreciated.
I will blee neder not answer any questions regarding which camp this is. Loshen hara was not the point of this post.
TIA |
Speak to the doctor of those individuals that you are trying to protect.
Last edited by thanks on Tue, Jun 30 2020, 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
OP
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 4:37 pm
| amother [ Denim ] wrote: |
Is your dd's camp outside, by any chance? Rules become less strict if so, and there is more extreme heat.
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Inside bunks for some activities, specialities, meals, etc. Outdoors for sports, swimming, etc.
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amother
cornflower
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Tue, Jun 30 2020, 4:51 pm
How old is the child? If a minor, then s/he should not go back to work. It sounds as though the administration is not following through and is unlikely to change. Ordinarily, I would be strongly against leaving an employer in the lurch, but what you describe is not ok.
If a legal adult, go over the state rules with him/her and be available to support him/her in negotiations with the administration. Make sure s/he knows it is ok to leave the job. Also be supportive in helping your child develop a new plan for the summer if necessary.
About gloves - in order to be useful, they must be put on and off correctly to avoid cross-contamination, and people tend not to change them frequently enough. They are useful in the health care setting, not so much elsewhere.
About masks - my mask protects you, and your mask protects me. If other staff are not wearing masks when they are supposed to (I’m not in NY and don’t know the rules), then your child wearing a mask is still at risk.
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