Home

Black Lives Matter article in Baltimore Jewish Life
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Jun 30 2020, 11:58 pm
https://www.baltimorejewishlif.....MpWNk
Back to top

amother




Pink
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 12:02 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
https://www.baltimorejewishlife.com/news/news-detail.php?SECTION_ID=1&ARTICLE_ID=132335&fbclid=IwAR0bdpuLAchw_47EToMwlS2FW39Wcqrogx0zmGEpmFmKsfElESpitkMpWNk


So - what do you think?
Back to top

amother




Babyblue
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 12:10 am
Applause well said
Back to top

amother




Lawngreen
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 12:19 am
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
So - what do you think?


I think Mr. Shafran is only right about the caricuture (sorry for the misspelling) in the magazine.

The signs by chasidic youngsters were perfectly okay.

BLACK LIVES MATTER movement is confusing at best.

yes, I am sure it is hard to be black, but too many Africans are vying to come to this country, so there is some distorted thinking somewhere.
yes, police need reform but is defunding and denigrating police the answer? havent they seen more shootings amongs themselves in the past weeks?
Black communities need reform in the area of single mothers, teen mothers which is the single most important factor that is keeping them in the gutters.
How can they excuse the looting and destroying a lifetimes hard work of small business owners including some of their own peoples'??

something doesnt add up, and so doesnt the article by Avi Shafran.
Back to top

amother




Blue
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 12:23 am
One of the dangers of insularity is a decrease in empathy.
Back to top

amother




Babyblue
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 12:35 am
So you think it isnt completely obnoxious to equate a luxury of the middle to upper class=summer camps with things like a jogger getting killed because they were in an all white neighborhood or getting pulled over not because you were speeding or your plates were flagged but only because your car was too nice for your look? Its comparible to you whining about cleaning lady problems to someone who doesnt have cash to buy supper for their kids. That is very insensitive. It isnt saying anyone agrees with Cuomo's decision to have some sensitivity.

Its not so extreme. You can support the normal every day good people who want to be treated fairly without buying the whole package of thugs and politically orchestrated mayhem.

The looters and rabble rousers are overwhelming majority young men from the projects who get into trouble all too often, protest or not. Not even close to a fraction of the people.

And that has nothing to do with the punishing police push, that is the liberal political agenda taking advantage trying to purchase votes.
Back to top

amother




Copper
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 12:40 am
Oh, please. I hear his point, but he lost me at "seemingly endless parade of unarmed black men and women killed by police".

That's not statistically accurate. The number of black people killed by police officers is disproportionately LOW as compared to white people killed during arrest by police officers. There were 9 cases in 2019 of black people, and more than double that of white people.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 12:41 am
Black Lives Matter Leader said they were a MARXIST Organization whose goal is to
destroy USA and replace it with Socialist Tyranny.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 12:49 am
I agree with Rabbi Shafran that the sign was in bad taste, or was at least that it employed humor which may have been too cynical for general consumption.

I think his letter was well-intentioned even if some details were inaccurate.
Back to top

amother




Purple
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 12:49 am
1. I don't know what BLM is trying to achieve. Is police brutality a proven fact in their community? Even if it is, the single motherhood rate, poverty, and crime data would seem to be a far greater concern.

2. It is difficult to sympathize with them when they hold me responsible. I read that 23% of people support violence during this revolution. They compare it to any other revolution (french, American) where change was achieved thru violence. I've seen on this site, women support this idea. Who do you think the violence will be against? Who is the enemy? I assume it's white people. I'm supposed to sympathize?
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 2:38 am
amother [ Copper ] wrote:
Oh, please. I hear his point, but he lost me at "seemingly endless parade of unarmed black men and women killed by police".

That's not statistically accurate. The number of black people killed by police officers is disproportionately LOW as compared to white people killed during arrest by police officers. There were 9 cases in 2019 of black people, and more than double that of white people.

"Proportionate" doesn't mean "which number is bigger," it means "which number is bigger in relation to..."

There were 11 unarmed black people and 25 unarmed white people killed by police in 2019. 250 black people and 403 white people killed by police overall, if we include people who were armed, carrying a toy weapon, in a vehicle, etc.

Taking people of other races into account: 20% of unarmed people killed by police were black, and 25% of people killed by police (both unarmed and not) were black. Since black people are only 13% of the US population, that means they were disproportionately likely to be shot and killed by police.

Whether or not that qualifies to be described as a "seemingly endless parade" depends, I suppose, on how many people it is that you expect police to kill.
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 2:44 am
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
1. I don't know what BLM is trying to achieve. Is police brutality a proven fact in their community? Even if it is, the single motherhood rate, poverty, and crime data would seem to be a far greater concern.

Why not read some of what they have to say?

I don't agree with the BLM movement specifically - the official leadership is pretty marxist, and racist in the way only self-satisfied leftist extremists can be - but their platform does talk quite a bit about addressing issues like poverty and poor education. And the mainstream views (ie people who support the 'black lives matter' cause without supporting the official Black Lives Matter leadership) are even more reasonable. Poverty is a HUGE part of this, there's a reason there's so much overlap between the size + violence of protests, and urban poverty.

Quote:
2. It is difficult to sympathize with them when they hold me responsible. I read that 23% of people support violence during this revolution. They compare it to any other revolution (french, American) where change was achieved thru violence. I've seen on this site, women support this idea. Who do you think the violence will be against? Who is the enemy? I assume it's white people. I'm supposed to sympathize?

First of all, nobody on this site has supported that idea. People have said that violence is effective, people have said that you can't end rioting without addressing the underlying issues that created the riots, but nobody has said that rioting is awesome and smashing up stores is an OK thing to do.

Secondly, why withhold sympathy based on an assumption? It's so easy to ask whether people hate and blame white people, and whether 'violence' means 'violence against white people' to them.
Back to top

amother




Purple
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 7:37 am
ora_43 wrote:
First of all, nobody on this site has supported that idea. People have said that violence is effective, people have said that you can't end rioting without addressing the underlying issues that created the riots, but nobody has said that rioting is awesome and smashing up stores is an OK thing to do.

Secondly, why withhold sympathy based on an assumption? It's so easy to ask whether people hate and blame white people, and whether 'violence' means 'violence against white people' to them.



Well, of course BLM will state for the record that they want to eradicate black poverty, improve black education and address other issues in the black community.

Do you believe this? Do you honestly believe that if you'd go to the next BLM rally and ask a sample of 100 people why they are protesting that ANY of them would talk about education and the fact that 75% of black kids can't pass a reading exam? Do you think there is ANY issue that BLM will protest that they acknowledge black responsibility and are trying to make a change? The single motherhood rate in the black community is 75%. This is literally and indisputably their single biggest issue. Do you think there are large rallies about this to raise awareness? There isn't. Everything is about white and police oppression and the need to eradicate it.

When I go to the BLM website, what do you think I see? Is there info about the importance of a 2 parent home? No, I see a bunch of pictures of blacks (some of them criminals and justifiably) killed by police. Are you seriously trying to tell me that BLM is not about suppressing what they believe is the constant killing of innocent blacks by white people and the police?
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 8:33 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
I think Mr. Shafran is only right about the caricuture (sorry for the misspelling) in the magazine.

The signs by chasidic youngsters were perfectly okay.

BLACK LIVES MATTER movement is confusing at best.

yes, I am sure it is hard to be black, but too many Africans are vying to come to this country, so there is some distorted thinking somewhere.
yes, police need reform but is defunding and denigrating police the answer? havent they seen more shootings amongs themselves in the past weeks?
Black communities need reform in the area of single mothers, teen mothers which is the single most important factor that is keeping them in the gutters.
How can they excuse the looting and destroying a lifetimes hard work of small business owners including some of their own peoples'??

something doesnt add up, and so doesnt the article by Avi Shafran.


I believe he said what had to be said. This article was cited on another thread.
To us, we see the nuances, we have the reservations about the BLM movement. (He's probably written an essay on that too.) But right now, we can say, you know we have issues with some of what the BLM movement has done, but we have to agree with the sentiment, that blacks should be respected and shouldn't have to live in fear. As I've heard said, a parent teaches his teen new driver how to be respectful if he's pulled over for some reason. A black parent teaches his son survival skills.

This comes back to the black leadership issue. That Sharpton and Farrakhan can be considered leaders is awful to us and discredits any movement they're affiliated with, yatza sechar b'efseido. But that's not how the people see it. They'll over look the G.D. America for whatever positives they see accruing. It's compartmentalizing. We're not going to change city hall. We SHOULD respect the sentiment black lives matter while not supporting the movement.
Back to top

amother




Smokey
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 8:42 am
well intentioned
woefully uninformed
without realizing soft pedaling the reality of what BLM means
for everyone
and for us in particular Jews of any color
Back to top

amother




Purple
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 8:56 am
ora_43 wrote:
"Proportionate" doesn't mean "which number is bigger," it means "which number is bigger in relation to..."

There were 11 unarmed black people and 25 unarmed white people killed by police in 2019. 250 black people and 403 white people killed by police overall, if we include people who were armed, carrying a toy weapon, in a vehicle, etc.

Taking people of other races into account: 20% of unarmed people killed by police were black, and 25% of people killed by police (both unarmed and not) were black. Since black people are only 13% of the US population, that means they were disproportionately likely to be shot and killed by police.

Whether or not that qualifies to be described as a "seemingly endless parade" depends, I suppose, on how many people it is that you expect police to kill.



Look, every life is important but these numbers are so small that it silly to think that this is a legitimate cause.

Not to mention that when a cop arrives at the scene in a black crime riddled area, he has to be ready to access his gun. Do you think cops show favoritism towards religious jews in boro park? Thousands of jews live in that dense area and I don't think a cop has ever shot a chasid or jew in boro park. Why not? Because cops know that jews in boro park are overwhelmingly non violent people and so when they respond to a call they are casual and not thinking that they better have their gun ready. As opposed to when they respond to a call in certain predominately black areas, the cop shows up and he's anticipating that he might need to ready himself for a fight. So this might be an obvious reason why there is a slight disproportion of police killings of unarmed black men.
Back to top

Cheiny




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 9:27 am
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
1. I don't know what BLM is trying to achieve. Is police brutality a proven fact in their community? Even if it is, the single motherhood rate, poverty, and crime data would seem to be a far greater concern.

2. It is difficult to sympathize with them when they hold me responsible. I read that 23% of people support violence during this revolution. They compare it to any other revolution (french, American) where change was achieved thru violence. I've seen on this site, women support this idea. Who do you think the violence will be against? Who is the enemy? I assume it's white people. I'm supposed to sympathize?


Alsowhen no one addresses their high rate of committing crime which makes them more prone to having police come in contact with them
Back to top

amother




Apricot
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 9:29 am
If I would say this myself I would be accused of being a racist so the following is just a copy and paste from an interview with prominent black writer Shelby Steele. Other than saying AS is a nice person, he puts my thoughts on the recent issues very nicely:

I will take Al Sharpton seriously. And I know him, he's a nice, nice person. I will take his message here seriously, when he stands before congregation like that of black -- people in America over a tragic event, and says what Black Americans can do to get out of the situation that we're in?

No one from the president on down anywhere, says, what role? What's going wrong with Black America? Why are they so dependent on White America, on the government? That all they can think of is themselves as victims, which then, of course, deflates them as human beings, undermines their best energies, their best intentions, and keeps -- and so, after 50-60 years now, past the civil rights bill, we're worse off in many socio-economic categories than we were 60 years ago back then.

I don't blame that in time and I understand why it happened. And the kind of liberalism that came in, and really took over our fate. Took it away from us. White America in many ways did that, and they needed it for their own reasons.

White America's live under this accusation that they're racist, they need to prove that they're not racist. In order to prove that you're not racist, you need to take over the fate of black people and say, go with us, we'll engineer you into the future, we'll engineer you into equality.

Life doesn't work like that. We have to engineer ourselves. Period. There is no other way. It -- unless you can rewrite the rules of the human condition. There is no circumstance in history where people can -- no matter -- no matter how much guilt they have over the oppressive majority, there is no -- there's no indicated -- indication anywhere that you can somehow get them to lift your -- lift you up and get you out of your -- the condition that you're -- it's not a possibility.

When I also hear from Sharpton and others, the argument that we need within the black community to work on the institution of marriage. Our families have fallen to pieces. 75 percent of all black children are born out of wedlock, without a father.

I don't care how many social programs you have. You're not going to overcome that. That's where we need to put -- all right, that's what the messages seems to me in this tragedy is, is that we, as Black Americans have to begin to take our fate back into our own hands and move it -- the stop crying racism.

There's a little racism out here, always was, and always will be. Why -- just why is that an argument to stop, to not move forward, to not be responsible for your own fate? Well, again, it's that -- it's that we live in a wealthy, liberal, bend over backwards, differential nation has hurt us in terms of moving out of the 400 years of oppression that we were subjected to.

And we're got -- we're never going to get out of it. And you can -- you can again fix to have the police go this many sensitivity training classes as you want. It's not going to me -- it's not going to read a story to a child that night before he goes to sleep so he's developing his mind and he's getting ready to go to school and be serious about the academic and educational development. So he can someday compete in the most advanced society in the modern world, where one has to be.
Back to top

Cheiny




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 9:31 am
ora_43 wrote:
"Proportionate" doesn't mean "which number is bigger," it means "which number is bigger in relation to..."

There were 11 unarmed black people and 25 unarmed white people killed by police in 2019. 250 black people and 403 white people killed by police overall, if we include people who were armed, carrying a toy weapon, in a vehicle, etc.

Taking people of other races into account: 20% of unarmed people killed by police were black, and 25% of people killed by police (both unarmed and not) were black. Since black people are only 13% of the US population, that means they were disproportionately likely to be shot and killed by police.

Whether or not that qualifies to be described as a "seemingly endless parade" depends, I suppose, on how many people it is that you expect police to kill.


They also disproportionately commit much more crime than other groups so there goes your point.
Back to top

Cheiny




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 9:34 am
PinkFridge wrote:
I believe he said what had to be said. This article was cited on another thread.
To us, we see the nuances, we have the reservations about the BLM movement. (He's probably written an essay on that too.) But right now, we can say, you know we have issues with some of what the BLM movement has done, but we have to agree with the sentiment, that blacks should be respected and shouldn't have to live in fear. As I've heard said, a parent teaches his teen new driver how to be respectful if he's pulled over for some reason. A black parent teaches his son survival skills.

This comes back to the black leadership issue. That Sharpton and Farrakhan can be considered leaders is awful to us and discredits any movement they're affiliated with, yatza sechar b'efseido. But that's not how the people see it. They'll over look the G.D. America for whatever positives they see accruing. It's compartmentalizing. We're not going to change city hall. We SHOULD respect the sentiment black lives matter while not supporting the movement.


You have to give respect to get it. When they start respecting police, and the rule of law, when they start taking responsibility for some of their own problems and working to fix them, ie. having numerous children out of wedlock, absent fathers, skipping out on education, involvement in crime, not working and expecting the govt. to support you, etc., then they and this “cause” will be more respected.


Last edited by Cheiny on Wed, Jul 01 2020, 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 1 of 6 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
So it’s Kamala Harris, they got the black woman they wanted
by Cheiny
259 Today at 8:06 pm View last post
Baltimore
by amother
33 Today at 7:36 pm View last post
Black Voices For Trump
by Cheiny
0 Today at 7:13 pm View last post
Black leaders: Biden will lose unless he picks black female
by Cheiny
2 Yesterday at 1:54 pm View last post
Building Up Our Home Library- Jewish
by Bleemee
18 Fri, Aug 07 2020, 2:25 pm View last post