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AG Rules Women Can Take Rabbanut Tests
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 3:41 am
http://www.israelnationalnews......82797

Thoughts?

On the one hand, real semicha no longer exists, and these accreditation exams have much more to do with the professional world than the world of psak halacha.

On the other hand, there is something to be said for dividing titles and roles. For example, I greatly admire the yoetzet program for providing a service to community without blurring community roles. They put a lot of thought into making those distinctions. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

What do you think? Are you for this, or against it, and why?
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:03 am
I totally support it.
There are many women who are very learned today. There is no legal excuse to allow only men to take the test.

The rabbanut desperately needs more women in decision making positions.

They don't need to call them rabbis, of course. But women should also be able to wield influence there. And should have equal access to the salaried positions.

I know I am an outlier on imamother, but many many Israelis agree with me.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:08 am
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
I totally support it.
There are many women who are very learned today. There is no legal excuse to allow only men to take the test.

The rabbanut desperately needs more women in decision making positions.

They don't need to call them rabbis, of course. But women should also be able to wield influence there. And should have equal access to the salaried positions.

I know I am an outlier on imamother, but many many Israelis agree with me.
I 100% agree with everything you said.
This is about more than women being called rabbi (which they never will be and never should be called that, there are other way more appropriate titles for women in these roles)
I also feel that there need to be more women in halachic roles so that not everything is male oriented.

I guess I am an outlier as well, but if we wont defend such wonderful progress, who will? Smile
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etky




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:08 am
Rappel wrote:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/282797

Thoughts?

On the one hand, real semicha no longer exists, and these accreditation exams have much more to do with the professional world than the world of psak halacha.

On the other hand, there is something to be said for dividing titles and roles. For example, I greatly admire the yoetzet program for providing a service to community without blurring community roles. They put a lot of thought into making those distinctions. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

What do you think? Are you for this, or against it, and why?


This. The way things are now is discriminatory against women in terms of salary and professional advancement for no valid reason.
As far as what each woman decides to do with the accreditation - that is up to her and to the community/institution that hires her. Some will opt for a more traditional role and some willl be bolder in what they pursue. We are still talking about Orthodox women who have studied at Orthodox institutions - even if from the more liberal streams - who view themselves as subservient to Halacha.
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:10 am
It's treading into very dangerous territory. I am not supportive of this.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:13 am
Success10 wrote:
It's treading into very dangerous territory. I am not supportive of this.
Dangerous how?
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grace413




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:17 am
https://www.timesofisrael.com/.....laws/
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:17 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Dangerous how?

It's nice that people like you know for certain that a woman can never be a rabbi, and never render a halachic ruling, but many people don't know that, and they think this is a "step in the right direction" toward giving women full equal status to men in orthodox Judaism, and rabbinic roles. Even read some of the quotes from the article:

Lawmaker Oded Forer of the Yisrael Beytenu party, chairman of the Committee for the Advancement of Women’s Status and Gender Equality, said the decision was “an important step towards equalizing the status of women in rabbinic and halakhic law.”
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:25 am
grace413 wrote:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/rabbinate-threatens-strike-if-forced-to-train-women-in-rabbinic-laws/


Let them strike. They will be biting themselves in the foot. There is already a movement to privatize many of the rabbanut's services (kashrut , halachic weddings, etc).

They will be making themselves even more irrelevant if they strike. Others will rise up to fill their place .
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amother




Pearl
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:31 am
They're just afraid. What rational person could be against Torah learning? So we'll have women who know hilchos shabbos - a Shanda!
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:35 am
Success10 wrote:
It's nice that people like you know for certain that a woman can never be a rabbi, and never render a halachic ruling, but many people don't know that, and they think this is a "step in the right direction" toward giving women full equal status to men in orthodox Judaism, and rabbinic roles. Even read some of the quotes from the article:

Lawmaker Oded Forer of the Yisrael Beytenu party, chairman of the Committee for the Advancement of Women’s Status and Gender Equality, said the decision was “an important step towards equalizing the status of women in rabbinic and halakhic law.”
What I dont understand is how could this be a bad thing in any way shape or form? This can only be a positive thing. Obviously not everyone agrees, but thats what I beleive.
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:40 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
What I dont understand is how could this be a bad thing in any way shape or form? This can only be a positive thing. Obviously not everyone agrees, but thats what I beleive.

Women and men are not equals. That does NOT mean one is better, or higher, or greater, or more in charge than the other. But they have different roles in the halachic and hashkafic perspective. It's a beautiful reality that modern society has convinced many is archaic and hateful. It's not. Women can not be rabbis. Women can not render a halachic ruling. If women want to advance their Torah knowledge, that's amazing and there are many venues to do that. But not through a rabbanical semicha organization.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:47 am
Success10 wrote:
Women and men are not equals. That does NOT mean one is better, or higher, or greater, or more in charge than the other. But they have different roles in the halachic and hashkafic perspective. It's a beautiful reality that modern society has convinced many is archaic and hateful. It's not. Women can not be rabbis. Women can not render a halachic ruling. If women want to advance their Torah knowledge, that's amazing and there are many venues to do that. But not through a rabbanical semicha organization.


So that's the problem, the rabbanut is part of the government.
Israel is a democratic, equal society. Or tries to be. So you can't offer hundreds or thousands of very cushy positions to men only. You can't offer salary advancements to men only.

If there were no money involved, they could do as they wish. But it's government money, taxpayers' money.

Eta - it's not just money, it's influence too.
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 5:23 am
I think it was about time to allow women take this exam...
In the long run, I suppose it will lead to women rabbis, and each community can decide what suits them best...
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amother




Pearl
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 5:27 am
Success10 wrote:
Women and men are not equals. That does NOT mean one is better, or higher, or greater, or more in charge than the other. But they have different roles in the halachic and hashkafic perspective. It's a beautiful reality that modern society has convinced many is archaic and hateful. It's not. Women can not be rabbis. Women can not render a halachic ruling. If women want to advance their Torah knowledge, that's amazing and there are many venues to do that. But not through a rabbanical semicha organization.


The rabbanut exam acts as an academic credential. If you've passed the 6 exams, you have the equivalent of a college degree. There's no legal way to offer this option to men and not women. So either you let women take the tests, or you stop giving credit for them to men.

And as far as semicha goes, the vast majority of rabbis don't issue psak. They act as teachers and social workers (but get paid more than women in those fields). I understand the sociological need for retaining male privilege, but the reality is that the world only gets better as more people learn Torah.

Women want to advance in Torah knowledge. The mechanism exists, in the form of the rabbanut exams. So let them use it.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 5:30 am
amother [ Pearl ] wrote:
The rabbanut exam acts as an academic credential. If you've passed the 6 exams, you have the equivalent of a college degree. There's no legal way to offer this option to men and not women. So either you let women take the tests, or you stop giving credit for them to men.

And as far as semicha goes, the vast majority of rabbis don't issue psak. They act as teachers and social workers (but get paid more than women in those fields). I understand the sociological need for retaining male privilege, but the reality is that the world only gets better as more people learn Torah.

Women want to advance in Torah knowledge. The mechanism exists, in the form of the rabbanut exams. So let them use it.

I agree.

Plus, I don't know of any halacha against exam-taking. What
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 6:38 am
Rappel, what are your thoughts? I'm assuming most people in Itamar oppose the idea?
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amother




Beige
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 6:42 am
Not commenting on this specific issue and not into the thought police but want to gently remind that this is a frum womens website, and we do not have women rabbis.
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chmom




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 6:44 am
But they are not speaking about women rabbis, they are speaking about test taking
I personally am thrilled
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 01 2020, 6:45 am
amother [ Beige ] wrote:
Not commenting on this specific issue and not into the thought police but want to gently remind that this is a frum womens website, and we do not have women rabbis.

Nobody said anything about women rabbis.

Why are you anonymous?
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