Do you consider yourself a Zionist?

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 4:59 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

So then if your children shouldnt be in the army and abc's children shouldnt be in the army and joe shmoes children etc, why do your children get to not fight for the country they live in but other families fo have to send their children to the army.

A volunteer army. Like every other civilized country.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:04 am

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

A volunteer army. Like every other civilized country.

There are other civilized countries in the world that have mandatory army service (even america had that until a bit over 40 years ago), not sure why you think Israel is the only country like that.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:06 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

It's simply not true that in times of old, only half the men went to battle. I don't know where you got that. Moshe Rabbenu fielded a full army.

As far as learning keeping the country going, yeshivas have ten weeks off a year. The country doesn't collapse during bein hazmanim. Care to imagine what would happen if the army shut down for ten weeks?

Most of the boys learn on their own during bein hazmanim.
The army can send 90% of them home during peaceful times and nothing will happen.
I work in a cellphone company. When the army was not allowed to return home during the hesger I got 10 phone calls a day from soldiers who finished the 150 GB alloted to them. It didn't sound to me like they were doing anything but watching movies (we did seell them a lot of movies too)

amother

Linen

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:12 am

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

If learning on your own protects the country, then why not learn while you're in the army? It can be done. My sons got quite a bit done on their smartphones.

And of course, soldiers aren't on active duty every minute. Especially not if they could have had leave but are locked down. But they are available. Some, like my sons and their friends, are streaming shiurim. And some are watching movies. So what?

amother

Magenta

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:13 am

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

I have sons in the army.
Some are sleeping in the field like dogs 24/7, on stones. And some are sitting in the office, doing paperwork. Some are hanging around the base just in case. Some are in constant training.

The army needs all of them. Yes, some of them sometimes watch movies when they have time. Especially the non-combat soldiers who were supposed to go home in the evening, but got stuck at the base due to corona. There is nothing wrong with that. Doesn't mean the army doesn't need them.

Believe me, there are plenty of boys registered at yeshiva watching just as many movies.

moonstone

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:15 am

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

Thank you and the previous poster, that comment made me too angry to write something coherent.

amother

Linen

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:18 am

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

A volunteer army. Like every other civilized country.

You're aware that most civilized countries don't border Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan, correct?

Jewishmom8

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:19 am

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

I daven for your sons every day. Hashem should protect them
Thank you

amother

Apricot

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:29 am

I love Israel and I am so grateful to hashem that I live here!!!!
I pray for the land of Israel on Shabbat (even if I live in a hachedi place)
But I really don't understand ,why the army is obligated!?!
Why can't it be like in every democratic contry!!????
Because of the army so many hachedims can't work ,and they stay in the "yeahiva only"..
It would be so different if we will not be forced to do the army!!(like in America andEurope..)
And the girls !!!the girls!!!!wich contry forces the girls to do the Army!!!never heard besides in Israel!!!
The IDF is great.
But the IDF for each one ,is so against the democracy ,and it's just bring problems in the contry!🙈

amother

Lime

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:36 am

I am a jew with love for Israel, jews and gratitude to the IDF for their mesirut nefesh to protect jews which there is nothing greater than that. If I lived in Israel, my son would probably serve.

I am not a zionist, because the original zionists were very anti-religious. Until Yitzhak Rabin, the PMs wouldn't mention G-d in their speech ever. They didn't even thank Hashem for obvious miracles such as the 6 day war.

The 5th lubavitcher Rebbe said that he would've become a zionist if the בילו movement would've added two words; באור ה'.

When you're founding a jewish country without G-d, that is not ischalta degeulah. It's the opposite unfortunately.

So many jews have suffered because of the government and their world-pleasing attitude.

So I do believe in fighting for the protection of jews in Israel, however, I would never consider myself a zionist.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:40 am

moonstone wrote:

Thank you and the previous poster, that comment made me too angry to write something coherent.

Why?
Most of the boys are there for when we'll need them. They TRAIN. They cn take off from training for 3 week sometimes. They do, actually, like on weeekends.
I don't know when these boys are wawtching their movies. Maybe they are staying up all night and training all day and never sleeping. Could be.
I talk to a lot of people every day. 150 GB is a lot to use up. You need to watch a movie or two a day for that to happen.
I see how many yeshiva boys are strraming movies. Much, much less. The yeshiva boys who call me about their hidden smartphones are mainly going into other things.

I believe that we need some of the army. I think that the army could be smaller. (in peacetime)
I also think that if the army would not be a requirement about 70% of the boys would not enlist.

amother

Blonde

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:49 am

sequoia wrote:

I am very Zionist — it is an inherent part of my identity and my soul, as much as being a woman, a Jew, a feminist.

Just now someone on FB told me Israel is an apartheid state and “free palestine” — I am debating whether to block them or not.

If I lived in Israel, I would definitely be part of a dati leumi community. I support the IDF, for which I was mocked in my very liberal private school.

This question is *basically* “are you chareidi?” — chareidim are non- or anti-Zionist. For me, it doesn’t matter if it’s coming from left-wing antisemitism or chareidi ideology — it’s all the same.

I’m charedi. My DH was in the army. We are both zionists and so are many of our friends ( most of the husbands did army as well).
Not all charedi people are non/anti zionists.

amother

Apricot

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:50 am

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

70%would not enlist!?!?
I don't know ..
But aren't the chilonims very very proud to be in the Army?

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:56 am

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

70%would not enlist!?!?
I don't know ..
But aren't the chilonims very very proud to be in the Army?

Chilonims? Smile

Its either chilonim or chilonis Wink

And no, not all secular israeli are proud to be in the army. There are many objectors in that society as well.

amother

Linen

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:57 am

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

Thank you, General Salmon, for assessing the manpower needs of the IDF.

While you're at it, can you tell me what percentage of yeshiva bochurim are not necessary for the yeshivas to offer their protection to the country?

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 5:59 am

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

70%would not enlist!?!?
I don't know ..
But aren't the chilonims very very proud to be in the Army?

Not any longer. Most chilonim today aren't zionists any more. They are just left-leaning secular people who don't care for the army. I know because I work with them on a daily basis.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 6:05 am

Success10 wrote:

Wait, so let me get this straight. There are orthodox women on this site who genuinely believe that Torah learning does not sustain and protect Eretz Yisroel?

Success10, you arent new to this site, right? There are women here with all different views about everything under the sun.

essie14

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 6:07 am

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

Exactly. We need all soldiers. The combat and non combat ones. My son just finished several weeks of sleeping in the shetach. Of course he needs to unwind in his downtime.
Both of my sons daven 3x a day in the army and they are not in nachal chareidi or in hesder programs. just regular units.
Many many soldiers learn while they serve.

Success10

Thu, Jul 02 2020, 6:08 am

I understood that women felt army service was obligatory, and it was immoral for some segments not to serve, either exclusively or alongside with learning. But I had no idea that some women really saw no value to Torah learning in the grand scheme of protecting the land. That is news to me.