Kids practicing fasting

amother

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 11:26 am

when do you have your kids start trying to fast? what age and how long do they fast? do you encourage them to fast or do they want to try? do you have to force them to eat eventually?

I'm trying to figure out what to do with my 10 yr old daughter who has no interest in trying to fast even till 12, and my other kids always fasted half day by this age, and had to be forced to eat or they would have kept going!

malki2

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 11:33 am

Kids do not need to practice fasting except for Yom Kippur. There is a “minhag” that some people have to have kids fast 3 fasts before their bar/bat Mitzvah, but there is not really a source for this.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 11:36 am

If she's not ready, she's not ready. I'd restrict junk food, so she understands she's only eating for nutrition today, but that's it.

There will be time enough for fasting when she gets older.

amother

Denim

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 11:45 am

I encourage my children under bar/bas mitzvah NOT to fast.

When I was a kid in camp, they didn’t allow anyone under bas mitzvah to fast (they said it was dangerous in the heat) even if it was their minhag to fast the three fasts before (unless their parents called and insisted).

zaq

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 11:48 am

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

If she's not ready, she's not ready. I'd restrict junk food, so she understands she's only eating for nutrition today, but that's it.

There will be time enough for fasting when she gets older.

This. No junk food, no "fun" food, just plain boring stuff that you don't have to cook. For chinuch purposes, not halachic purposes. She's not fasting, and you shouldn't force her, but she does have to understand that it's a day of mourning.

Chayalle

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 11:48 am

as Malki2 said, there's no source for the "3 fasts before Bas Mitzva". (but everyone can do their minhag) DH says besides for YK, we hope that Moshiach will come and the other fasts will be battul. He doesn't get the need to practice for something we hope will be obliterated, there's no real chinuch here......

My DD is fasting today for the first time. She was Bas Mitzva before Pesach. I got up before 4 to give her breakfast, and hope she gets thru it (DH says Tisha B'Av is much more chamur, and for today we'll see how it goes.)

Previously, I always told my kids who were not fasting that a fast day is not for treats, just for eating regular healthy food.

ShishKabob

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 11:56 am

malki2 wrote:

This!

amother

Powderblue

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 12:08 pm

My rav tells us that there's no inyan chinuch by aveilus. Which means kids can practice with Yom Kippur and with Taanis Esther, which also isn't about aveilus. We do not encourage practicing- it has to come from the kid. (If the kid insists on practicing aveilus fast days and they're old enough and it's not a problem, we allow.) Being around their peers will bring it on soon enough. For some kids, that means not starting early at all and getting support on that first requires day. For some, it means fasting until chatzos or even just skipping breakfast. Any way is fine.

amother

White

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 12:13 pm

There's no need for a 10 year old to fast. I agree with the no treats as mentioned above, unless it's prepared food that makes the parent's fast easier. We do specifically give a special treat on Yom Kippur to underage kids because it's a Yom Tov rather than a day or mourning.

My family has the minhag to fast 3 fasts before bar/bat mitzvah but DH's family doesn't. We have a 12 year old daughter whose first real fast is today. Practice fasts just make sure that the kids know they can do it before they absolutely have to so they're not anxious about it. DD voluntarily fasted the past few times so she's not worried about today, although I'm worried for her because she's in camp and I'm not there to keep an eye on her.

keym

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 12:31 pm

I agree with previous posters.
We encourage "practicing" YK. Pushing off breakfast, etc. The YK before bar/bas mitzva they do the whole thing.
3 fasts before bar/bas mitzva, we allow but not force.
Besides that, I actually push them to eat simple, yet nutritious foods. Hungry kids are kvetchy kids, and that won't help my fast.
No junk, nosh or treats. Basic sandwiches, pasta, fruit, etc.

amother

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 12:32 pm

do your kids not fast till chatzos? I thought that is pretty much standard in the year or 2 before bar/bas mitzvah.
I think its important for kids to have that feeling of I'm hungry but I can push myself to wait an hour, and if I can wait an hour I can wait 2 hours, and so on. it gives the kids confidence to know that they CAN fast when they need to. I think its important.

keym

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 12:35 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yes for Yom Kippur starting at 9-10 (depending on a boy or girl and maturity), maybe for an 11 yr old girl or 12 yr old boy.
And if yes, then Tisha Back (more big).

Chayalle

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 12:36 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

although I'm worried for her because she's in camp and I'm not there to keep an eye on her.

One of my DD's was telling me that she never managed to fast in camp. I remember that the first year she was in camp for a fast day, I got a call from them saying that she's not feeling well and the Camp Rav feels she should eat, am I okay with that. Well, I put them in her care, and wasn't going to second-guess their psak.

DD was saying that in camp, there's tons of walking around, and if it's very hot, it can be very dehydrating. You walk from your bunk house to the shul for Shacharis, and then to another place for shiur, etc...by mid-day she had a pounding headache and they made her eat.

She never went to camp for Tisha B'Av, always chose the other half. She felt it would be too hard to get thru, and is better off at home fasting.

malki2

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 12:37 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No, and many hold that it’s not so healthy for kids to fast or even skip breakfast. So if it’s not halachically required, why should it be done?

Chayalle

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 12:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Tisha B'Av and Y"K, I always did with my kids before Bas Mitzva what my parents did when we grew up - we fasted till the time of our age. We'd joke that the baby was fasting till 1 in the morning (of course, this wasn't necessarily true - if baby woke up and needed to be fed, baby was fed)....

But by age 9, 10 we weren't having an early breakfast.

Some kids will push it and fast till 11, 12, etc...but there's no Halacha about this, and no, it's not standard at all. For some kids, it's pushing something they are really not ready for, and that's why the Halacha is they don't fast in the first place.

Notsobusy

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 12:49 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No. My kids dont fast before their bar/bad mitzva. Yom kippur and tisha bav they fast only until they wake up in the morning. They can have breakfast as early as they want.

I know a lot of people who hold by 3 fasts before, but I never heard of a ten year old fasting until chatzos.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 2:01 pm

I don’t believe in fasting practice. However DH minhag is strict so we do that.

I think some ppl have children over 9 fast Yom Kippur until chatzos.

Our minhag is children over 9 fast until chatzos all fasts (my dd is 10 and has hard time so doesn’t but my boys were fine) as long as school allows it.

And then 3 fasts before bar/bas mitzvah.

If you don’t have a minhag I wouldn’t push it at all. I fasted my first at bas mitzvah and it was fine.

mamma llama

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 3:02 pm

I once heard that Hashem sends a malach to help us the first 3 times that we fast, (I don't know the source...) so I wouldn't want my kids to use it up before they even have a chiyuv to fast.