Why wouldn't a restaurant use the vaad?

amother

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 7:32 pm

I live in 5towns and over 50 local rabbanim signed a letter today stating that 3 local restaurants are no long are under the vaad and they strongly discourage community members from patronizing these establishments.

I'm very uneducated about this topic.

1. Is there a reason other than money why a food establishment would not use the current hashgacha board?

2. The vaad says it's better if the whole community is under 1 hashgacha. Why is this so?

3. Is there anyone in the food business that has a general idea of how much a medium size restaurant pays for their hashgacha?

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 7:38 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Lots of,times it’s about money and nothing more, and lots of times it’s about the hashgacha establishment being untrustworthy, and sometimes it’s about the food place not abiding by the hashgacha agency’s rules. I have a close friend who’s a head mashgiach of a well known hashgacha agency and the stories I’ve heard would make you sick. Some of the welll known hashgachas are lax in many areas and will take over hashgacha for a restaurant that was dropped by a different hashgacha agency for kashrus violations. It’s scary.

amother

Copper

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 7:41 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The letter clearly stated why they don’t want to use the new hashgacha. These places prob wanted to save money and they were approached by the new hashgacha. They will quickly change back to the vaad once they see the letter

amother

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 7:46 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

I have the letter in front of me. I don't see any mention of why these places aren't using the vaad anymore.

amother

Orchid

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 7:50 pm

Based on a conversation with someone involved in the vaad, it sounds like the vaad is very careful that the rabanim assigned to a given restaurant have no prior relationship with the owner and won’t show favoritism, plus they don’t actually make that much additional money on each restaurant. When you’re dealing with a private hechsher, they want to keep your business, so they may allow things to slide through.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 7:57 pm

OP not sure what angle you area asking about. Are you asking why the vaad isn't certifying these places or are you asking why the places took new certifications.

The vaad isn't certifying these places because they (the restaurants) chose to switch certification.

Why they chose to do that? Well maybe cuz one of the 3 places is owned by a brother in law of the new certification? And possibly because although the new certification is calling itself mehadrin maybe their standards aren't as strict as the vaad making it simpler on the restaurants.

amother

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 8:03 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

I'm asking from the perspective that at this point in time, the vaad has a monopoly and is the kashrus authority for every single food establishment in the 5towns. There are many people in the 5towns who won't patronize someplace that is not endorsed by the vaad. It seems like financial suicide to not give in to whatever terms the vaad was demanding. I'm very interested to understand why these relationships couldn't be salvaged when so much is at stake from the business owners perspective.

amother

Blonde

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 8:13 pm

I'm also in the 5T and got that email. AIUI, it's not that those establishments lost their hashgacha, it's that they're choosing to use a new hashgacha. It sounds like a political issue rather than a kashrus issue. I belong to a kosher foodies group on Facebook and the discussion raging there is that the 5T Vaad is a monopoly who abuses its power and that it's about time that they have some competition. I don't have any inside information to know if this is the case or not.

amother

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 9:18 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

I don’t know 5 town politics.
But in my communities religiously it is good to have overall vaad led by the local rabbanim.
When someone decides not to be under the vaad and the community rabbinic umbrella it’s a pretty large statement that the local rabbanim aren’t in charge.

Fair enough.

The other side of the coin is that since it's just the vaad and nobody else, the vaad is a monopoly and can charge exorbitant prices. I have no idea if this was the case or not.

I'm just really turned off by the idea that a restaurant should lose their hashgacha, and people in a community aren't able to eat at their favorite restaurants over a money dispute between the local rabbanim and business owners. Seems ridiculous.

Also, in general, competition is good. It lowers prices for the consumer. Monopolies are bad. It leaves the consumer with no alternative but to pay whatever price the monopoly owner is demanding.

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 10:47 pm

I live here too. I am a typical 5 townser, kids in darchei and tag. And I will continue to eat at these places.
The owners are frum and respectful. I understand its a matter of money. I heard the vaad charges alot and some restaurants just dont feel like paying it, whatever the reason. I understand the position of the vaad and would agree with them in principal. On the other hand, a monopoly is just plain unfair. It happened to another restaurant several years ago, waffelino, where they were looking for a mew hechsher and then had to close down. These restaurants are under the hashgacha of 2 respected rabbis who are valued for their halacha and insight in the community. So why wouldn't I eat there?
Brooklyn has tons of hashgachos
They manage just fine

amother

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 11:14 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

So help me out here. You say you understand the position of the vaad.

I think the part that bothers me the most is that the vaad is full of rabbanim. They are a collection of the most highly regarded and well respected people in the neighborhood. Yet this reeks of a mafia style bully. The vaad says it will be "confusing" if there's more than 1 hechsher in the 5 towns. Huh? Seriously? Does bklyn have more than 1 hechsher? Is it confusing? It seems like they want the business and are literally making up stories to get their way. What's more is that I see on foodies groups the vaad is taking a real beating in the comments. These are our rabbanim! Why on earth are they collectively bullying others who want to do business here? I hate to say it but it does seem like a mafia "this is our turf so get lost", attitude.

Exactly what part of the vaads statement do you understand?

amother

Copper

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 11:18 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

So I guess as a typical five townser you don’t respect the letter signed by 53 rabbanim ??

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jul 09 2020, 11:19 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is five towns a community? Brooklyn isn’t really a community.
Like Baltimore is a community with a vaad harabanim and hechsher and everyone listens. In Baltimore with coronavirus everyone listens to one unifying group of rabbanim. In Brooklyn it isn’t like that.
Until recently Lakewood as like that also. But as the community to include diff types it changed. In the beginning When a place started not having the local hevgsher it was a statement. Now it doesn’t matter as much anymore. Personally I still mainly eat s places under the community hechsher because I don’t think it’s good to separate from the community and choose diff standards. You see in Lakewood it’s no longer a community that there is no unifying voice - like with coronavirus.

If the 5 towns is a similar type - like tag and darchei type as you say then having a unifying vaad creates a sense of Torah community and standards. When that falls apart I think the community changes.