Camp in Vermont | Imamother

amother

Sun, Jul 12 2020, 9:31 pm

I’m wondering if this is a witch hunt or valid.

Camps in Vermont can be at 75% capacity. Hotels 50%. A camp is renting a hotel with 600 capacity with 350-400 kids. Now they are counting as hotel and kicking kids out.

Residents complain of seeing campers roam street but there isn’t one pic. Campers face $350 fine.

Every camper took a covid test 1 week before camp. You didn’t board the bus without your results.

Numerous inspectors have been called down to both campuses and found minor infractions.

In Bennington girls are eating outside in large tent (sited by an inspector as missing a permit). No one from outside is allowed on grounds (heard a driver was turned away and had to drop off kids at entrance).

Is Mr. Faignant on a witch hunt and going overboard or doing due diligence? Is it a matter of disgruntled neighbors who lost hiking paths (in Bennington) or more. antisemetic groups have gotten involved.
Are non Jewish camps treated the same. Are groups in other hotels investigated the same? Are all other groups having every covid test checked for dates and validity (as they are doing)?

https://www.rutlandherald.com/......html

https://vtdigger.org/2020/07/0.....says/

https://www.benningtonbanner.c.....08663

https://www.rutlandherald.com/......html

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Jul 12 2020, 10:23 pm

Sorry no sympathy from me.

A hotel operates along completely different occupancy modes than a camp.

A household rents one room or maybe two and the household stays together. Children are supervised by at least one parent or adult and would belong to the same household. They would eat together.

A camp by nature is mingling together and presents different health hazards than a sleep away camp.

The camp was attempting to exploit a loophole and wasn't operating in the manner contemplated when hotels were permitted to have higher occupancy rates than a camp.

I don't think this is a witch hunt at all but is closing a loophole because the Legislature never thought that any one would actually attempt to rent rooms in a hotel and call it a camp.

amother

Sun, Jul 12 2020, 10:40 pm

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

Camps can have higher (75%) then hotel (50%). Opposite of your logic.
They are using the hotel rate not the camp rate to expel campers.

The camp isn’t exploiting any rules. They setup camp as they believed legal using the camp rate.

In hotels ppl come and go. Here everyone is staying on lockdown for 21 days with weekly covid tests. Sounds safer then any hotel I’ve heard of.
The hotel has 300 rooms so they are allowing 300 beds to be occupied using the room count as the occupancy count. Not the legal occupancy of the hotel.

amother

Violet

Sun, Jul 12 2020, 10:52 pm

My daughter is in brc in Bennington on the camp grounds. They took all precautions everyone needed a negative corona test and a mask. They made so many arrangements and got permits and permission for everything. They koshered the kitchen and put up an erev. They hired a full time security guard and a full time doctor not just nurses in case of corona. The hotel is for older teen girls and they are staying in the hotel.

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Jul 12 2020, 10:59 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I’m not sure how this helps. The camp is over the occupancy requirements of a hotel

A hotel is not a camp ground. Generally it would have limited recreational facilities and limited outdoor space. The rules were set up assuming it was a camp in a typical camp setting and not a hotel. Where are the children playing. Where are they eating.

No one would have conceived that someone would rent rooms in a hotel to house a summer camp when the regulation was set up.

amother

Sun, Jul 12 2020, 11:10 pm

chestnut wrote:

I'm confused. If the camps are open, and at a higher capacity, why does the camp bring kids to a hotel?

The camp is closed. 2 grades of teens are spending 21 days in a closed hotel. That is the camp. They do indoor activities in the conference center.
3 other grades are in a closed college.

Just to clarify. This is a non profit camp. He charges half of other sleep over camps and about the same as most day camps.

A camp is a closed environment. This is a very closed environment.

What happens when colleges do open in Vermont in the fall. Are they also not allowed to operate?

amother

Chocolate

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 1:04 am

Who said the colleges there are opening as normal? Most colleges have actually announced very limited reopenings. Not to mention, that's still a good month and a half off. Not comparable to a bit contingent that arrived in the beginning of July.

Amarante

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 1:25 am

[quote="amother [ OP ]"
What happens when colleges do open in Vermont in the fall. Are they also not allowed to operate?[/quote]

As posted, many colleges are not opening as already announced and I suspect that many more will go to online classes.

I am cynical and essentially colleges are staying open because they can’t afford to lose tuition. Who is going to be $50,000 for tuition to a private university if it is on-line. Kids would take a gap year or take some on line classes at their community or state schools. The California state system has announced it is all online for Fall.

Also colleges are getting tremendous pushback from faculty because many professors are in a high risk group

There have already been reports of cases where some frat houses were open for whatever reason.

thanks

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 5:28 am

chestnut wrote:

Sorry, this is wrong and a chilul Hashem. It's one thing to do it upstate in Jewish hotels, and completely different - in non Jewish ones.
Why didn't they open regularly there in a camp if it's legal?

Huh? What's the difference which hotel they're in? I don't understand your point. I don't see why it's better in a Jewish hotel.

The hotel has 300 rooms. At 50% occupancy, that's 300 people. However, some rooms are allowed more than 2 people. The camp will work it out with the hotel and state. I wish them hatzlocha!

Last edited by thanks on Mon, Jul 13 2020, 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 8:25 am

chestnut wrote:

In ny it is illegal. In Vermont it is legal. They couldn’t find camp grounds so they opened in a hotel and revamped their program. What is wrong with that? It’s like a hotel retreat. So far that it isn’t illegal. Only the confusion in how many students are allowed.
And the witch hunt to find every possible infraction and search for pics of the girls.

amother

Black

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 8:42 am

I live in a small town that hasn’t had many cases of corona. If a huge group of people from the tri state area pulled up here, people would be wary. They would want to make sure it’s safe. I guess this is where they’re coming from.

amother

Blue

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 9:17 am

amother [ Black ] wrote:

Kids and adults from NY and Fl are camping in VT. They may have tested negative before but could have caught Covid en route to VT. I think VTers have grounds to be concerned.

amother

Blue

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 9:31 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The “witch hunt” angle isn’t true at all. If you read what you posted, you will see that the camp in Bennington was in compliance but the Rutland one wasn’t. It is about hotel fire safety/compliance issues not a witch hunt.

As an aside, if anyone is involved in a camp in VT, you WILL stick out as a big crowd of Jewish kids so any errors could indeed bring a big Chilul Hashem. Conversely, showing regard for, and willingness to comply with Vt State laws might bring a Kiddush Hashem.

amother

Violet

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 10:54 am

New York did not allow summer camps and Vermont did. Why is it illegal to bring a camp to Vermont. They are following all the rules and being careful with corona. They just have to figure out the numbers. they applied as a camp in a hotel

amother

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 10:58 am

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

Rutland didn’t have fire safety issues.

Bennington they complained about a fire alarm and tent without a permit.

Remington they complaine about 50-100 girls over a 50% ocvupancy rate that is questionable. (Wouldn’t fire hazards in a holiday inn be in the inn and not the camp)

Multiple agencies are being called out by neighbors in attempts to find issues. They are going as far as to interrogate the bus companies that did transportation

The camp is on record as going above and beyond in being honest with the townships since day 1.

amother

Tue, Jul 14 2020, 12:13 am

The local reports are saying this is being fueled by outside ppl - such as rise up ocean county - an antisemetoc hate group. In general They always seem to have inside information in the Lakewood orthodox community. I wonder how.

https://www.benningtonbanner.c.....08812

http://benningtonvt.org/public.....mpus/

RUOC seems to come up in every article about the camps.
But many on here would rather side with an anti-Semitic group then a Jewish camp.

And the camp is having positive discussions with community.
It turns out the no trespassing hiking signs weren’t even put up by the camp.
https://m.facebook.com/batsvt/.....nav=0

They aren’t secretly circumventing the law as some wish to believe.

And the camp has spent $200,000 - 300,000 in the local economy just improving the camp grounds.

amother

Blue

Tue, Jul 14 2020, 6:10 am

thanks wrote:

There were coaches filled with 900 people. Really hard not to see this as a Chilul Hashem. But it is positive that the BATs signs were not put up by the camp director as previously and wrongly inferred.

amother

Blue

Tue, Jul 14 2020, 6:21 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If a hotel is above capacity it is a fire hazard.

As long as the camps don’t infringe on the rights of the locals or leave all their garbage everywhere, things should be ok. The camp quite rightly should be going above and beyond what the local authority demands.

I hope that all out-of-state campers and staff are fully quarantined as currently required by Vt State law.