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Why does flour in israel need sifting?
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 7:19 am
Never understood this.
Im from England, where we never did this.
Does anyone ever actually find anything in their flour when they sift???
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Success10




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 7:22 am
I think the flour in Israel used to be more wormy. Yes, people have found worms in their flour. It's much less common these days, but still apparently a threat, as the standard rulings of the rabbonim are still in place, flour needs to be sifted, or purchase the pre-sifted flour.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 7:41 am
They sell presifted everywhere now..
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 7:43 am
I have. Three little ones squirming at the bottom of the sifter. I was helping a friend at the time, and her nine year old daughter nearly had hysterics and was dubious about eating the challa for the next few weeks.

If often depends on how long the flour has been stored and what the storage conditions were.

I prefer whole wheat so now I normally buy pre checked, but I refuse to pay that kind of price for white flour, so the sifter still comes out on occasion.
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rzab




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 8:21 am
It used to be a much bigger problem. I have heard from two different ravs that it is no longer necessary to sift as long as the flour is stored properly. Sealed and in the fridge/freezer.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 8:24 am
Ive always bought sifted flour here. I sifted flour the first year after I made aliyah. After that? Nope, always sifted. Much easier.
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BadTichelDay




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 8:24 am
If you keep opened flour packages in the cupboard for a few weeks, chances are you'll find worms, little beetles or moths in there...
I don't recall finding things in freshly opened new packages but of course I sift them all. The pre-checked flour is more expensive.
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 8:30 am
Bugs in flour, dried fruit and so on are much more common in hot countries.

I once found "wildlife" in a new bag of flour right here in the US.
What's the big deal? Sifting flour is not that hard, and most recipes assume that you have sifted the flour before measuring even if they don't say so. Flour settles, and if you measure without sifting, you end up with more flour than you're supposed to, which means your product is going to be more dense than it should be. "presifted" flour settles just the same as unsifted; bugs can get in during or after the packing, and during storage, especially in warm conditions, eggs can hatch.
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 8:35 am
rzab wrote:
It used to be a much bigger problem. I have heard from two different ravs that it is no longer necessary to sift as long as the flour is stored properly. Sealed and in the fridge/freezer.


You need to take into account the storage conditions before you bought it, and that is often hard to check. In storage is the most likely period for it to pick up bugs.

I've found bugs in pre-checked rice, so I try to be cautious.
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WitchKitty




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 8:56 am
Same as checking eggs for blood spots or tomatoes for worms. You'll find a few times in your life, and all the rest of the times you're just happy nothing needs to get thrown out.
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:05 am
I didn't know you had to check tomatoes!

But we don't like them and I hardly ever buy them. Something to learn before my next tomato purchase.
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WitchKitty




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:11 am
https://shofar.tv/articles/747

We once found a worm in a cherry tomato. That's how we figured it out...
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:14 am
WitchKitty wrote:
https://shofar.tv/articles/747

We once found a worm in a cherry tomato. That's how we figured it out...


Thank you. That doesn't sound too complicated or time consuming.
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:32 am
Sifting in the US is recommended for baked items if you want the best results.

There can be a big difference in results - especially for cakes - if you just scoop up the amount. And the absolute best recipes specify a weight instead of a cup measurement.
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:34 am
Amarante wrote:
And the absolute best recipes specify a weight instead of a cup measurement.


This is the standard way that recipes are written in England. Or at least was when I lived there. I don't know the situation now. I'd never heard of measuring cups until I came to Israel
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:53 am
Elfrida wrote:
This is the standard way that recipes are written in England. Or at least was when I lived there. I don't know the situation now. I'd never heard of measuring cups until I came to Israel


It's becoming more common in the US with better baking books but for whatever reason *standard* baking recipes in the US will generally just have cup measurements.

When I learned how to bake I was taught that one sifts the flour and THEN measures it and makes sure not to pack the cup. Too much flour in a cake can really alter the result as can using regular flour instead of cake flour when specified.

I know that some biscuit experts insist on using Martha White flour because it is a "soft" flour which is low in gluten and therefore the biscuit will be super flaky and tender.

When I learned about weighing ingredients, I bought a postal scale which was very inexpensive compared to some of the scales that were marketed as "kitchen" scales.l

ETA - I wanted to add that my British cookbooks will generally specify weights for all recipes - not just the desserts. I find this to be helpful because I sometimes don't know exactly how much a cup of something is - a cup of carrots can be quite a bit different depending on how the carrots are chopped or diced - same for an onion or other veggies.
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Shuly




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 29 2020, 2:45 am
Flour in Israel is imported so it is stored for longer than in other countries.
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Jay3fer




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 29 2020, 5:26 am
Amarante wrote:
Sifting in the US is recommended for baked items if you want the best results.

There can be a big difference in results - especially for cakes - if you just scoop up the amount. And the absolute best recipes specify a weight instead of a cup measurement.


Good bakers recommend sifting but it's not the same as for halachic purposes -- it's a wider-holed sifter that wouldn't strain out bugs or eggs.

But I definitely agree about weights rather than cups! I have demonstrated for my kids that a cup of flour can weigh anywhere between 110 (super fluffy, not quite full) and maybe 180 grams (tapping & shaking the measuring cup a lot to make more fit in). That's a whole lot of difference in terms of how your cakes etc. turn out!
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jul 29 2020, 5:50 am
rzab wrote:
It used to be a much bigger problem. I have heard from two different ravs that it is no longer necessary to sift as long as the flour is stored properly. Sealed and in the fridge/freezer.


Wow. Would you know who said this? Would love to find out
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 29 2020, 10:22 am
Jay3fer wrote:
Good bakers recommend sifting but it's not the same as for halachic purposes -- it's a wider-holed sifter that wouldn't strain out bugs or eggs.

But I definitely agree about weights rather than cups! I have demonstrated for my kids that a cup of flour can weigh anywhere between 110 (super fluffy, not quite full) and maybe 180 grams (tapping & shaking the measuring cup a lot to make more fit in). That's a whole lot of difference in terms of how your cakes etc. turn out!


I just wanted to mention that sifting in any country is important to yield the best resuls for baking.

Obviously in some countries you don't have to sift for halachic purposes and measurement isn't as critical for success as it is for cakes - e.g. if one is making some kind of coating for breading
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