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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 1:28 pm
Contemplating aliyah. Tell me about the draft. My oldest is a boy. Brilliant and looking forward to college and all sciences and math. Loves gemara and is a real masmid and learns tons in his free time. 9 th grader. The draft is a huge consideration in all of this as it don't think he is cut out for army service. Please advise.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 1:37 pm
1) it is super easy to get an exemption - just don't go the Yeshiva exemption route. Some examples of exemptions that can and do happen: celiacs, express a hatred of all Arabs, declare total commitment to malchut Beit David and insist you'll follow your rabbi before you follow your commander, attend a settlement protest, get caught with weed as a teen, etc.
2) if you wanted him to draft but remain in a religious environment, the hesder program is top-notch successful because it keeps the boys in their Yeshiva peer group throughout their service.


Last edited by Rappel on Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 1:54 pm
I think contact the organization Chaim V'Chessed and they can tell you your options. It's not so simple if he's not in Yeshiva full time. www.chaimvchessed.com
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 1:55 pm
He could serve in the intelligence unit.
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 1:55 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Contemplating aliyah. Tell me about the draft. My oldest is a boy. Brilliant and looking forward to college and all sciences and math. Loves gemara and is a real masmid and learns tons in his free time. 9 th grader. The draft is a huge consideration in all of this as it don't think he is cut out for army service. Please advise.
Is he (are you) interested in going to the army?
If he is chareidi attending a chareidi yeshiva he will be deferred indefinitely. Many chareidim do enlist after marriage - especially if he’s into science there are technology programs for chareidim with vocational and sometimes academic training.
If you are not chareidi and interested in enlisting there are many options. Your son might be encorporated in an intelligence unit that uses science/math and gain a lot of experience and connections for the future. He can also do a program that will give him a degree prior to the army in exchange for a certain years of service. Many boys attend Post high school yeshivot before enlisting. For a year or two of army spiritual prep or serious learning. There is the aforementioned Hesder program where the boys learn in yeshiva and enlist together in a special frum unit and serve a shorter term. There is nachal chareidi where the boys serve in special frum units (and have a more “kosher” experience) and learn in Yeshiva part of the time - it’s not necessarily chareidi there is a mix of chareidi, torani, and OTD.
There is also hesder merkaz where the boys enlist after learning in yeshiva gevoha for several years, usually after marriage (in mid 20s) and serve for less than a year.
Anyhow lots of options.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:01 pm
Success10 wrote:
I think contact the organization Chaim V'Chessed and they can tell you your options. It's not so simple if he's not in Yeshiva full time. www.chaimvchessed.com


Again - the Yeshiva student exemption has become highly politicised, and is thus under a lot of scrutiny. I wouldn't recommend anyone going that route.

Any other exemption ("Elor Azarya is my hero!! When do I get a gun??? I hate Arabs.") is really easy to get.
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amother




Lilac
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:08 pm
DrMom wrote:
He could serve in the intelligence unit.


My DH served in intelligence as a computer programmer for over a decade and finished ranking as a lieutenant (סגן?) and he greatly benefited from his service career wise. They fully paid for his degree in computer science and he went straight into a well paid hi-tech job because of all the training and experience he gained.

If your son is smart and mathematically minded it's a great track for him. My DH also set up a shiuir in gemara on his base and continued to learn extensively throughout his service and he had several haredi soldiers below him.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:15 pm
Rappel wrote:


Any other exemption ("Elor Azarya is my hero!! When do I get a gun??? I hate Arabs.") is really easy to get.


I really think that's the wrong way to go. It's immoral, and it makes a fool out of you. Plus everything is documented, and you really don't want that coming back to bite you in the foot one day in the future.

I would never advise my children to lie like that.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:17 pm
amother [ Lilac ] wrote:
My DH served in intelligence as a computer programmer for over a decade and finished ranking as a lieutenant (סגן?) and he greatly benefited from his service career wise. They fully paid for his degree in computer science and he went straight into a well paid hi-tech job because of all the training and experience he gained.

If your son is smart and mathematically minded it's a great track for him. My DH also set up a shiuir in gemara on his base and continued to learn extensively throughout his service and he had several haredi soldiers below him.


Yes, I also know a few dati people who were in 8200 computers and it gave them great experience for down the road.

I believe they have (or had) a charedi unit there.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:19 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
I really think that's the wrong way to go. It's immoral, and it makes a fool out of you. Plus everything is documented, and you really don't want that coming back to bite you in the foot one day in the future.

I would never advise my children to lie like that.

I never said lie. I know people like that.

I also know someone who got a ptur by coming in with tefillin on and explaining that he wanted the israeli government to fall and to replace it with malchut Beit David. That's an easy one for any religious kid.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:22 pm
Rappel wrote:
I never said lie. I know people like that.

I also know someone who got a ptur by coming in with tefillin on and explaining that he wanted the israeli government to fall and to replace it with malchut Beit David. That's an easy one for any religious kid.


OK, if he really wants guns in order to kill Arabs asap, then I agree it's best to be open about it and tell them at the interview. We don't need people like that in the army.

(And no, it's not 'easy' for any religious kid to come and say he wants the government to fall and be replaced. Not getting into why or why not - even among the datiim it is a debate what does malchut Beit David mean - but in any case, many dati kids would feel insane talking like that at the interview).
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amother




Lilac
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:22 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Yes, I also know a few dati people who were in 8200 computers and it gave them great experience for down the road.

I believe they have (or had) a charedi unit there.


Yep, that was his base. He literally walked into his current job in cyber security (the army also is great for networking) and is very happy. He could have stayed on as a career soldier (and retire at 40) but decided there was more money long term in moving into hi-tech. There were many dati and charedi on his base and the non-religious were very respectful.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:32 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
OK, if he really wants guns in order to kill Arabs asap, then I agree it's best to be open about it and tell them at the interview. We don't need people like that in the army.

(And no, it's not 'easy' for any religious kid to come and say he wants the government to fall and be replaced. Not getting into why or why not - even among the datiim it is a debate what does malchut Beit David mean - but in any case, many dati kids would feel insane talking like that at the interview).


Just a guess, but those are probably not the kids trying to seek a ptur. Wink
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moonstone




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:35 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
I really think that's the wrong way to go. It's immoral, and it makes a fool out of you. Plus everything is documented, and you really don't want that coming back to bite you in the foot one day in the future.

I would never advise my children to lie like that.


Thank you. That advice was crazy.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:42 pm
Rappel wrote:
Just a guess, but those are probably not the kids trying to seek a ptur. Wink


So who are you advising to say that? I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.

If someone is unstable, or has violent tendencies, and that comes out at the interview - fine, that's what interviews are for. These people need to be weeded out.

I somehow doubt the op's son falls under these categories, from her description. So why are you advising him to say all sorts of crazy things at the interview? (To put on a fake show, in essence).
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#Happymom




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:56 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
So who are you advising to say that? I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.

If someone is unstable, or has violent tendencies, and that comes out at the interview - fine, that's what interviews are for. These people need to be weeded out.

I somehow doubt the op's son falls under these categories, from her description. So why are you advising him to say all sorts of crazy things at the interview? (To put on a fake show, in essence).


Lol. She was kidding around, I understood that she was just trying to show op that it can be pretty easy to get an exemption.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 2:59 pm
How long is army service? If you get a ptur does that mean no college? My son wants college.

Thank you to all who posted. These are all different ideas. I really appreciate it. I really know zero. I just want to know what I'm getting myself into. Open eyes.

If he serves in an intelligence unit (only if there is a religious unit), doesnt he still need basic training? Can he be called up from reserves after serving obligatory time? Are the frum units really frum? Can one still get hurt in an intelligence unit (the army is the army!). Sorry if some of these questions seem stupid.
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 3:06 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
How long is army service? If you get a ptur does that mean no college? My son wants college.

Thank you to all who posted. These are all different ideas. I really appreciate it. I really know zero. I just want to know what I'm getting myself into. Open eyes.

If he serves in an intelligence unit (only if there is a religious unit), doesnt he still need basic training? Can he be called up from reserves after serving obligatory time? Are the frum units really frum? Can one still get hurt in an intelligence unit (the army is the army!). Sorry if some of these questions seem stupid.


You've mentioned he's not cut out for the army. If he has some sort of medical diagnosis that can back that up, that would be the best way out. If you are coming from a Yeshivish mentality, and you are concerned for your son's frumkeit, it's best to speak to an expert from a Yeshivish organization who will not try to convince you that there are no bad influences in the army, there are.
That being said, there are bad influences everywhere, including Yeshiva and college. If your son is not planning on learning full time after age 18, the frum army options might be an inevitable reality, and possibly a great stepping stone for your son. But get educated properly. Not on here.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 3:19 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
How long is army service? If you get a ptur does that mean no college? My son wants college.

Thank you to all who posted. These are all different ideas. I really appreciate it. I really know zero. I just want to know what I'm getting myself into. Open eyes.

If he serves in an intelligence unit (only if there is a religious unit), doesnt he still need basic training? Can he be called up from reserves after serving obligatory time? Are the frum units really frum? Can one still get hurt in an intelligence unit (the army is the army!). Sorry if some of these questions seem stupid.


Mandatory service is now only 30 months (used to be 36, then 32, now 30).
Everyone in the army gets basic training, but it's tailored to the unit he's in. There are lots of people with slight medical issues or whatever, that do desk jobs, and underwent basic training suitable for their situation.
In any case, basic training is only a few weeks.
Yes, of course he can be called for reserve duty. Any soldier can (married women or mothers are exempt).
Intelligence units are generally not front-line combat units. He's sitting beside a computer most of the time. His chances for getting 'hurt' are the same as any other civilian.

I don't know how religious the religious units are, because my sons serve(d) in regular units. There were LOTS of datiim there, in fact in one of my son's combat units, the majority happened to be dati.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Tue, Jul 28 2020, 3:22 pm
Success10 wrote:
You've mentioned he's not cut out for the army. If he has some sort of medical diagnosis that can back that up, that would be the best way out. .


If it's something minor, then he will simply be slotted for a desk job (which includes 8200).
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