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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
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amother
Burlywood
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 Thu, Jul 30 2020, 12:46 pm
We hear all the time from non affiliated and non Jewish people how lucky we are as a family to live family community G-d Centered moral lives.
We know it and don’t need to rely upon others view tho still nice to hear.
Wishing everyone health and happiness!
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saboni
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 12:49 pm
If I wasn't Jewish I would not be me. A Jew is composed of two souls. An animal soul (similar to that of a non Jew) and a divine soul, an actual part of Hashem.
If I wasn't a Jew I would be a totally different being. It's like imagining what my life would be like if I was not a woman.
Boruch Hashem I was created a Jew. The pleasures of life, tempting as they are, and having no restrictions, don't compare to having a deep purpose in this world and being part of am Yisroel.
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Teomima
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 12:52 pm
Such an interesting question. I wonder if I'd have the same strong sense of family. We wouldn't have made Aliyah, that's for sure, so my whole family would be living in the States, but probably in different states (whereas now most of us are in the same city in Israel).
I'd still want to be married, still have the same number of kids I have. But I could see myself living somewhere remotely, self sustainably, maybe with a little land, some crops and some goats.
I'm a vegetarian so not keeping kosher wouldn't change my diet much. I'm DL and already dress in a manner than I'm comfortable with and would probably dress mostly the same were I not Jewish. Except for my hair, I wouldn't be covering my hair of course. I'd love to not bother covering my hair.
But I love the sense of history and purpose that Judaism gives my life and I wonder if I'd feel lacking without it.
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sallysaucer
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 1:23 pm
| amother [ Amethyst ] wrote: | | I know a few frum women who have done this. |
Not in my community, unfortunately.
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amother
Puce
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 2:50 pm
If I wasn't Jewish, I'd presumably not live in Israel, I might be unmarried and have no kids. My life might be more successful professionally but it would lack sense, meaning and connection to Hashem. I have atheistic non-Jewish family members and never quite understood what they live for and how they can bear the ups and downs of life. It makes me afraid to try to think myself into them. Imagine the loneliness and senselessness and, in their mind, after death - nothing. Actually, thank G-d that I'm Jewish!
Of more immediate concern, if I wasn't Jewish, l wouldn't be lying on my bed right now, groaning and short of breath, because I wouldn't have been binge eating after the fast, cramming about 3 full meals down my throat in less than 20 minutes... 
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Outoftowner22
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 3:08 pm
I don't know how to answer this... Being Jewish is part and parcel who I am...
It's like asking if I was born an animal, I have no idea what to answer.
Made me think for a while though!
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flowerpower
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 3:15 pm
I’d probably be married to a bald beer bellied dude that makes a decent salary at some under rated profession living in a semi decent one family house across the street from the in laws and have a handful of kids or more.....
But I am so grateful to be a frum jew! I am what I am because of it
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amother
Gold
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:16 pm
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I wouldn’t need a Mikva. A mitzvah I do but find very hard
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amother
Aubergine
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:19 pm
| saboni wrote: | If I wasn't Jewish I would not be me. A Jew is composed of two souls. An animal soul (similar to that of a non Jew) and a divine soul, an actual part of Hashem.
If I wasn't a Jew I would be a totally different being. It's like imagining what my life would be like if I was not a woman.
Boruch Hashem I was created a Jew. The pleasures of life, tempting as they are, and having no restrictions, don't compare to having a deep purpose in this world and being part of am Yisroel. |
If true, that is the single most appealing aspect of the idea of not being Jewish.
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amother
Olive
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:36 pm
I would have different fears and anxieties.
I often cannot sleep at night anxious about the future of the Jews , phobic of antisemitic attacks etc. This is rational because I have been verbally attacked and was close to a grandfather who was a holocaust survivor. I cannot imagine living without fear of persecution.
I do imagine that if I was not Jewish I would be pursuing religion of sorts because I am that type of person who appreciates being a part of a group and would want my family to live within a set of morals.
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amother
Red
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:46 pm
Interesting question. Speaking as a bt who did many of the things behaviourally that others mentioned, I’d say that it’s not being Jewish or not that made me do them.
My life has been affected by being Jewish from birth but that didn’t stop me from eating whatever I wanted, sleeping with whoever I wanted, drinking or smoking.
I was married for twelve years ( never cheated on husband despite terrible relations life and slutty past behaviour) before we became more observant ( and it’s been 14 years since then.)
I raised two children according to my priorities which weren’t really that different before and after I became observant.
Why assume that non Jews don’t restrict themselves just because they aren’t Jewish? I know non Jewish vegetarians, vegans, and people who don’t eat pork or shell fish. I kn ow and personally love at least three religious muslims who I consider part of my family. We have many similar scruples.
I don’t think this is about being Jewish or not. It’s being religiously observant or not, whatever the religion or non religion even.
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amother
Olive
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Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:47 pm
| sequoia wrote: | Some of these replies...
“If I weren’t frum I would have gone to an Ivy League university.”
There are *so many* frum kids in Ivies. Primarily Columbia (some of my classes, in Yiddish literature, were like 100% kippahs and skirts) and Penn, but also Harvard, Cornell...
“I would be living in the country.”
I feel ya. I long to live in a rural setting. It’s hard as a single woman without a car.
So that’s my issue.
But for a frum family? Totally possible. Yishuvim are kind of like the country, some of them anyway.
“I’d have male friends.”
Hi.
“Secular literature and entertainment.”
No comment.
So we have the LEAP from Jewish to frum, and then a greater LEAP from frum to specific right-wing yeshivish communities.
And now we’ve got absurdities like, “If I weren’t Jewish, I’d be a lawyer or doctor.”
Hmmm, Jewish lawyer or doctor... Only the most common stereotype ever!!!!!
Announcement in the paper: Mr and Mrs Rosenberg are happy to announce the birth of their son, Dr Jonathan Rosenberg.
When is a fetus viable? When it graduates from medical school.
I’m sure you’ve heard these jokes and others.
So... come on.
Just admit you love being a Jew, you love being frum, but you wish you were in a community with more options. Your dh probably wishes the same thing. Everyone has different talents and strengths; not everyone can or should learn full time. |
Sequoia, we can always count on you for a down to earth answer. Thank you 😊
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amother
Tan
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Fri, Jul 31 2020, 2:20 am
| amother [ Red ] wrote: |
Why assume that non Jews don’t restrict themselves just because they aren’t Jewish? I know non Jewish vegetarians, vegans, and people who don’t eat pork or shell fish. I kn ow and personally love at least three religious muslims who I consider part of my family. We have many similar scruples.
I don’t think this is about being Jewish or not. It’s being religiously observant or not, whatever the religion or non religion even. |
You have a point. NonJews do restrict themselves. The thing is, they do it voluntarily (unless we are talking about belonging to another religion).
An atheist vegan doesn't stop eating animal products because he thinks he must; he chooses to do so because he thinks that's the most moral choice.
Also, the restricts secular people place upon themselves are more flexible. The don't span every facet of life.
As for other religions, I don't think anyone is saying they aren't restrictive. A woman who can't leave her house without a burka and can't drive is living a far more restrictive life than most of us.
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Teomima
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Fri, Jul 31 2020, 2:57 am
| amother [ Tan ] wrote: | You have a point. NonJews do restrict themselves. The thing is, they do it voluntarily (unless we are talking about belonging to another religion).
An atheist vegan doesn't stop eating animal products because he thinks he must; he chooses to do so because he thinks that's the most moral choice.
Also, the restricts secular people place upon themselves are more flexible. The don't span every facet of life.
As for other religions, I don't think anyone is saying they aren't restrictive. A woman who can't leave her house without a burka and can't drive is living a far more restrictive life than most of us. |
But isn't that the same reason we all practice Judaism? The world won't end of any of us goes OTD. We live this life because we choose to and we believe in it.
As for "optional restrictions", that exists no matter what, secular or Jewish, and they can span every facet of life, secular or Jewish. For example, I'm a vegetarian. I also don't wear any animal products (no leather or silk) nor do I feel comfortable buying meat products. It can be very challenging and limiting, making sure none of the shoes or bags I buy have any leather. I was once gifted a beautiful Italian leather wallet and I had to turn it down (fortunately the family member who gave it to me was happy to have it to use for herself). In my college days I didn't keep a kosher kitchen but I still keep a set of vegetarian dishes separate from my roommates' treif ones, more for the sake of vegetarianism than Judaism.
I think it can be easy to see secular people eating anything they want, doing anything they want any day of the week, and thinking they have fewer restrictions, and it's true that it is a freer life, but it is not one free from restrictions. After all, secular people in the States wouldn't dream of eating many of the animals commonly consumed elsewhere in the world (dog in China, horse in Mongolia, etc.) Many Asian cultures have a deep sense of good manners that include subtle protocols people from western countries wouldn't even notice. Other cultures have such an
strong sense of hospitality that the entire family will drop whatever task there is at hand to serve visitors and guests. Many cultures in the world practice body modification, getting tattoos, piercings, scarification, or even more extreme practices such as neck stretching, lip plates, and teeth filing. All of these things I've mentioned would affect practically every facet of daily life, and exist regardless of religion. Us Jews are not all that unique.
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amother
Aubergine
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Fri, Jul 31 2020, 3:01 am
| Teomima wrote: | But isn't that the same reason we all practice Judaism? The world won't end of any of us goes OTD. We live this life because we choose to and we believe in it.
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No, we have the equivalent of a gun held to us threatening us that we must do this. It's really not a choice.
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Fri, Jul 31 2020, 4:14 am
| amother [ Aubergine ] wrote: | | No, we have the equivalent of a gun held to us threatening us that we must do this. It's really not a choice. |
Wow, this must be an awful way to live as a frum Jew. Sounds like you’re missing some basic hashkafa. But this is not my religion.
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sequoia
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Fri, Jul 31 2020, 5:26 am
| amother [ Aubergine ] wrote: | | No, we have the equivalent of a gun held to us threatening us that we must do this. It's really not a choice. |
Do you mean the fear of losing your children if you go against your community?
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amother
Burlywood
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Fri, Jul 31 2020, 5:49 am
We are the shock troops of Hashem's Army. To transform this world and make it a dwelling place for Hashem, to bring Moshiach and the Bais Hamikdash for the good of everyone.
Not always easy.
A responsibility and a privilege.
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amother
Azure
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Fri, Jul 31 2020, 6:21 am
I would have looked for the emeth ,for the true
I would have met my husband , probably also a [gentile] , looking for the true
and together we would have convert in Judaism.
We would have married.
Alya
Children
As a teen I would have be very rebellious against my a very abusive parents because no one would have told me about" it's kibbud av voem""it is witten in the תורה the parents can do what they want to their children ,and children have to accept..."
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amother
Saddlebrown
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Fri, Jul 31 2020, 7:36 am
| amother [ Aubergine ] wrote: | | No, we have the equivalent of a gun held to us threatening us that we must do this. It's really not a choice. |
I used to feel this way but then just realized how wrong that was.
Last edited by amother on Fri, Dec 04 2020, 3:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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