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S/O - fear of shidduchim
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:11 pm
Someone mentioned in another thread that shidduchim are hard for antivaxxers. I'm not disagreeing, but the concept of how to lead one's life based on how it will be for them when they come to shidduchim is absolutely foreign to me. I grew up knowing that we do what we do because we think it's right, whatever that is, be it which schools to send the kids to, whether we were allowed to "watch" stuff, whether to swaddle a baby or not, which job to take...

Then I got married and in DH's family there is a fear of shidduchim. MIL would tell single BIL to make sure to learn well so that he can do a good shidduch. The way they dress, the way they make decisions about minor stuff is all overshadowed by what will people say and will it "look good" for me/us.

I have such a hard time relating to it and I get an instinctive repulsive response upon hearing a comment like "Learn well so that you can do a good shidduch." Learn well because it's the right thing to do! Because it's good for you, not because you'll have a good name out there.

DH still has this mentality and it's hard for us sometimes to make major family decisions because of these differences in our outlook. I believe shidduchim are bashert and as long as you do what you think is right, what Hashem wants from you right now, you won't go wrong. Yes, there are people who have a hard time with shidduchim, but can we blame them for doing something "wrong" as the reason for their hard time? There are people who do everything right and have a hard time with shidduchim, and there are people who have a lot of odds working against them and don't have such a hard time.

What do you think about leading your life and raising your children and making decisions based on the fear of what will happen when it comes to shidduchim?
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:21 pm
I’m with you. Don’t do things based on whether or not they’re good for shidduchim. I don’t have kids in school yet but dh wants to homeschool for various reasons. Aside for some basic concerns I have (not having enough social skills and stuff, but we have ideas to counteract that), I’ve been told “it’s bad for shidduchim....” one of the people who told me this said if not for shidduchim, she would homeschool.
Please do what’s right for you and your family and let hashem be in charge of shidduchim.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:28 pm
amother [ Taupe ] wrote:
I’m with you. Don’t do things based on whether or not they’re good for shidduchim. I don’t have kids in school yet but dh wants to homeschool for various reasons. Aside for some basic concerns I have (not having enough social skills and stuff, but we have ideas to counteract that), I’ve been told “it’s bad for shidduchim....” one of the people who told me this said if not for shidduchim, she would homeschool.
Please do what’s right for you and your family and let hashem be in charge of shidduchim.


Disagree strongly. Don't sacrifice your children on the altar of ideals. In the real world, homeschooled children will have a very hard time getting a date. Why would you do that to your children?
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:31 pm
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Disagree strongly. Don't sacrifice your children on the altar of ideals. In the real world, homeschooled children will have a very hard time getting a date. Why would you do that to your children?

Because she thinks that homeschooling them now will be better for them now and for the long-term. It's not about ideals; it's about what she thinks is beneficial for her child.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:34 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Because she thinks that homeschooling them now will be better for them now and for the long-term. It's not about ideals; it's about what she thinks is beneficial for this very child.


She doesn't even have school age kids yet.

Obviously, the theoretical child's needs come first. But the "need" to be homeschooled needs to be weighed against the very real stigma the child will encounter. A wise parent realizes it is a very valid concern and not just say, "Oh, shiddduchim are bashert."
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:39 pm
I find as people get older they get more confident in their decisions and less worried about things like this.
Or, something happens to them/,their child that is "bad for shidduchim" yet is out of their control, so, once the axe has fallen it has less of a hold on them and they see it is an irrational way to live your life.

On this note, can I say the Family First words unspoken from a few weeks ago from a teacher who gave bad information about a former student when called as a shidduch reference really rubbed me the wrong way. I feel like it's a whip that certain types of teachers in certain schools try to hold over the girls heads-- telling them these fire and brimstone stories of students who misbehaved then didn't get married. It's psychologically unhealthy and misuse of teaching authority. If that's what you've got as a classroom management tool, maybe you aren't cut out to be a teacher.
Not to mention, plenty of teenage girls can be disruptive students or a bit wild, yet a few years later, have grown up nicely and matured. To try to hold someone accountable for normal teen behavior for ever and ever also says a lot more about the teacher than the student. Unless the girl had a streak of cruelty, this is just ridiculous.

Not to mention I know plenty of immature, chutzpahdik girls who ended up married by the age of 20....and lots of aidel, quiet, respectful girls, who didn't.
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QueensMama




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:40 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
I find as people get older they get more confident in their decisions and less worried about things like this.
Or, something happens to them/,their child that is "bad for shidduchim" yet is out of their control, so, once the axe has fallen it has less of a hold on them and they see it is an irrational way to live your life.

On this note, can I say the Family First words unspoken from a few weeks ago from a teacher who gave bad information about a former student when called as a shidduch reference really rubbed me the wrong way. I feel like it's a whip that certain types of teachers in certain schools try to hold over the girls heads-- telling them these fire and brimstone stories of students who misbehaved then didn't get married. It's psychologically unhealthy and misuse of teaching authority. If that's what you've got as a classroom management tool, maybe you aren't cut out to be a teacher.
Not to mention, plenty of teenage girls can be disruptive students or a bit wild, yet a few years later, have grown up nicely and matured. To try to hold someone accountable for normal teen behavior for ever and ever also says a lot more about the teacher than the student. Unless the girl had a streak of cruelty, this is just ridiculous.

Not to mention I know plenty of immature, chutzpahdik girls who ended up married by the age of 20....and lots of aidel, quiet, respectful girls, who didn't.


I read that and to me the teacher seemed to be gloating.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:42 pm
Exactly, though she cloaked it under a self righteous "it hurts me more than it hurts you" tone. I didn't buy it.
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:48 pm
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Disagree strongly. Don't sacrifice your children on the altar of ideals. In the real world, homeschooled children will have a very hard time getting a date. Why would you do that to your children?


Depends which real world.
IF you decide to go a route which is very non-conforming in a very conformist society, then there may very well be consequences.

If you do want to home-school, then maybe it's best to affiliate yourself with a less conformist society. Not everyone in the real world is biased against homeschooled kids.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:49 pm
I wouldn’t say someone should vaccinate because of shidduchim, but I personally wouldn’t do a shidduch with someone who disregards what rabbanim and doctors are advising us, and does so vocally.
Shidduchim are bashert, and people do many kinda of hishtadlus to get married.
Widening their pool pf potential matches can be another form of hishtadlus.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:59 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
I wouldn’t say someone should vaccinate because of shidduchim, but I personally wouldn’t do a shidduch with someone who disregards what rabbanim and doctors are advising us, and does so vocally.
Shidduchim are bashert, and people do many kinda of hishtadlus to get married.
Widening their pool pf potential matches can be another form of hishtadlus.

Would you care to inquire if they have rabbanim and doctors supporting thier decision? Some people do due to a past adverse reaction.

How much hishtadlus to do, that's the question? For the girl and boy in question to dress nicely and be on their best behavior is normal hishtadlus. To decide which elementary school to send kids to is not normal (IMO) hishtadlus. Where to draw the line?
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 6:04 pm
I don’t think you should run your life based on what would be good for a shidduch.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 6:11 pm
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
Depends which real world.
IF you decide to go a route which is very non-conforming in a very conformist society, then there may very well be consequences.

If you do want to home-school, then maybe it's best to affiliate yourself with a less conformist society. Not everyone in the real world is biased against homeschooled kids.


You'd be hardpressed to find a community that goes through the "shidduch" system that is unbiased towards homeschooling. But if you're in a community where it isn't an issue the whole discussion is irrelevant.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 6:15 pm
Shidduchim are so nuanced.

In a way its juvenile to think that if you do A, B or C you will be able to do a certain shidduch.

But for so many people this is true. They follow a certain way of life and coloring out would mean missing out on certain shidduchim.

It's not a developed or mature way of thinking but life never pushed them to dig deeper and they are sailing along.


Re an anti vaxer-
I have no issue to look into a child from an anti vax home.
The questions I'll ask will be;

Are they extreme in other things?

How busy are they with vaxing or not vaxing?

Just like I don’t want anyone that is too busy with politics, common core, their rebbe, health, their shitas etc. I also don't want anyone to be busy with vaxing as if its a certain part of yiddihskeit.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 6:18 pm
So in 12th grade my teachers and principals and nearly every other person on the planet were warning me that my decision not to go to seminary (at all,not even in us) was TERRIBLE for my shidduchim. I would have a hard time getting dates, its bad for my reputation, blah blah. Especially since I also had very little money and no yichus. And (the nerve of me!!) I was also looking for a boy would be learning in the beginning.
Well, I discussed it with my Rav who told me I should make decisions based on whether it was the right thing for ME, and if it was what Hashem wants. And he agreed that my decisions for not going to seminary (I wanted to get started on my degree, I wanted to save the money that my parents didnt really have, and I was done with studying) were sensible and that I should ignore the doomsdayers and do whats good for me.
So I did. I went to college and got a degree that I used to fully support my kolel husband 2 years later.
But oh those doomsdayers! Those irritating, well meaning, completely mistaken doomsdayers were absolutely impossible and very difficult to ignore. "How are you supposed to geta good shidduch? Amd a learning boy??
But I kept telling myself im doing the right thing and carried on...

Well.
In the end, I was one of the first in my class to get engaged BH to the most amazing person in the universe. And yes he was a learning boy. The one who they said would never consider me becUse I didnt go to sem.
I dont think I had a hard time in shidduchim, I did have dates...and if there are people who rejected me without my knowledge,no problem, Hashem saved me the time and energy of dating an extra guy who wasnt my bashert anyway.
So yeah, this taught me a valuable lesson.
Do what is right for you. Live your life according to Hashem.
Remember that He alone is in charge.
And thats how I live my life.
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nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 6:30 pm
This is pretty big in the Chassidishe world. I legit heard a woman tell a tantruming toddler she is in public and she won't be able to get a good shidduch if she acts like that lol. I'm pretty sure the mother meant it. I do many things just for my children's future shidduchim... it's just the way it is.
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amother
White


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 6:50 pm
To answer you, OP, it’s awful to give some nebulous “them” power over your life and decisions. It also shows a lack of faith in the KBH Who is the One true Shadchan.

Furthermore, if a certain group’s values don’t match yours, why would you or your dc look there for a shidduch? It would be like shopping at the Big and Tall Shop when you’re five three and weigh a hundred pounds.

I first heard about all this nonsense years ago. A friend told me about some of the incredibly superficial things that made some candidates possul: a mom who wears sneakers, a mom who uses a bubby cart, a dad who wears colored shirts (let’s not even talk about T shirts and plaid golf shorts!), colored tablecloth on Shabbat and other narishkeit.

For about ten seconds I moaned “my kids are doomed!” Then logic and reason returned and I realized that there is no way on this good earth that I would want my children to marry anyone brought up by people so shallow and judgmental and with such superficial values. Reject my children...please! You’d be doing me a favor! I don’t WANT my children to marry yours!

Even if you’re committed to going the shidduchim route—why?—you can and should be upfront about your hashkafa and your values. This is for LIFE—if you’re not going to be honest about who you are, there will be unpleasantness at best, misery at worst, down the road. Do you really want to have to hide your secular novels when your married dc come to visit, or have a separate wardrobe, or lie about what you do on vacation or where you daven?
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ShishKabob




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 6:57 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Not to mention, plenty of teenage girls can be disruptive students or a bit wild, yet a few years later, have grown up nicely and matured.

Not to mention I know plenty of immature, chutzpahdik girls who ended up married by the age of 20....and lots of aidel, quiet, respectful girls, who didn't.
I liked your entire post especially this!
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amother
Azure


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 7:07 pm
I was raised with this mentality. A family member had cancer and I was told to keep it a secret for shidduchim.Everything in my life was “for shidduchim”. I even presented myself as more frum than I really was while dating because I was convinced that was the only way I would get married. Ironically, my husbands main concern while dating was that I may be too frum for him. Bh he got over that and we’re married!
But this mentality is dangerous and honestly can ruin marriages. Never live your life for what others think. You only live once. Make that one life of yours count the way you want it to
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amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Thu, Jul 30 2020, 7:39 pm
I agree with all the others. Make decisions based on what’s right for your child and family. Raising your children to be happy and well adjusted is the best way to ensure they’ll be healthy adults in good marriages. Doing everything conventionally and staying inside the box all your life is no guarantee that you’ll end up with a good shidduch.
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