Home

I don’t want my daughter to date.
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 12:05 pm
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
I am one of those posters on the shalom bayis threads. My poor mother witnessed her 'top daughter' who was popular, talented, smart, happy, friendly, turn into a shadow in the first year of marriage, and then into an aged woman in the years following that. She was pained to see it, and yet I didn't really talk with her much about it, because I was told not to.

I have some advice for you, because I know as well as you that sitting out and not getting married is not an option in our communities, and your dd will certainty have a desire to get married.

1. Studies show that the best marriages are the ones that are between two people who are naturally happy. Do yourself a favor and look for a guy that is naturally happy. Unfair? I know. Most people are not the naturally happy type, but those who are tend to fair better in marriage. My dh was a top bachur, who learned well, helped others, etc, but he was the very serious type, not the happy type.
2. Do your research and find out what kind of friend the guy was. It's a hard thing to research, but the best way to know if he will be a good husband, loyal to your daughter, is to find out if he has had close relationships with other boys. My dh switched yeshivas a few times, and had a hard time sticking with chavrusas, both big red flags to look out for.
3. Do not get so carried away with wedding plans that your daughter feels pressure during engagement. She should make the most of those engagement dates and continue looking for things that may make her feel uncomfortable. Call off the shidduch during engagement and you'll save yourself heartache down the road. I was so nervous during engagement, that even though there were major issues that arose during the engagement, I didn't want to disappoint my parents and so I said nothing.
4. Bonus is if you can find out if the boy was ever a counselor or in a position of authority / responsibility, and find out how that experience was for the campers / kids / customers. This is a hard one.

When dating, I looked for the boy who was the smartest, 'top learner', etc. My father also looked for empathy and caring for others. These are great traits, but I've learned that social skills, joy in life, and responsibility are actually more important than those.

Best of luck... wishing you well on your journey of letting go and escorting your child into adulthood.


This is a very good post. Thank you Rose for posting. I agree with every word, exactly my focus as mother of DD in shidduchim.
Back to top

amother




Coral
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 12:39 pm
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
How old is she?

My sister is in her thirties and unmarried, and while she has an amazing job and fantastic friends, she travels and has a blog, and does all sorts of amazing chesed and other hobbies, there's always an underlying sadness. She wants children so badly. She feels stuck, somehow.

You want your child to marry because life is not best lived alone. Stop being ridiculous, and just daven that she meets someone as wonderful as she is.


There are those who are sad being unmarried, there are those who are sad being married.

Always need Hishtadlus (lots of checking, really, things will come out), tefilos, and no rush. mid to upper 20s is great!

From someone who was looking for LOOOOOONG time for my Prince. (and bh found him! later than 20s)
Back to top

amother




Ecru
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 1:05 pm
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:
I dont think life Is as "simple" as "all ppl in bad marriages with bad dhs didnt check out well or didnt think about the above"..

.life is complex....men put on shows and many families hide their secrets and keep it to themselves....also ppl change....does a person know how well he will be able to handle sleepless nights with financial stress and the responsibilities of a wife/kids? no!!you have to experience it to know exactly how youll handle it....

where does hashem fit into this? dont we believe we must do our hishtadlus but after that, hashem has a plan as to which challenges/pain/suffering we will have?

or, are you saying that all ppl with bad dhs in these bad situations didnt do their proper hishtadlus and missed red flags???(I dont agree....and I think its easy to say that if one has not experienced complex boys and families who know how to put on shows for dating/engagements).....

I think the person who posted about how we must be careful about what it means to be "mevater" and "sacrifice" etc...(is correct)

that we need to teach our children a balance and how to recognize certain behaviors which may happen after marriage(which are usually hidden before) ....because a lot of girls are taught that we must do do do...and we need to be a good wife etc....but we should also teach our dds about how their dhs should treat them....such that there are red flags after marriage that some women push aside because they think "if only I would be a better wife..."(as many schools also teach that "if you treat your dh as a king, he will treat you as a queen."....but this is not true for dhs who have mental health issues or....)

I also agree with bc being an option for the first year or....(although many ppl disagree with this)....this way if there are red flags after marriage which were hidden before, then its "easier to get out" as some women feel more stuck once kids are in the picture....(2 of my yeshivish relatives who did a lot of checking.... were on bc for a year and ended up divorcing (one bec the girl saw a red flag and one bec the boy saw a red flag (while the other gender didnt want the divorce but had no choice....) they had no kids when they divorced...


Chas vchalilah, I definitely wasn't thinking about any retroactive decisions, nor would I ever dare blame someone for ending up in a difficult situation. I was just sharing some ideas for OPs daughter to think proactively while she's dating guys. Thanks for calling it out, I wouldn't want to hurt anyone. Hug
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 3:45 pm
If I had to choose between divorced with children or never married (no kids obviously)
I would 100% choose divorced with kids.

But around 90% of frum marriages DON'T end up divorced, and most of those marriages
are ok or better so why be such a pessimist?

Do your hishtadlus, davven and the odds are in your favor that your DD will be happy.
Back to top

amother




Rose
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 4:16 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
If I had to choose between divorced with children or never married (no kids obviously)
I would 100% choose divorced with kids.

But around 90% of frum marriages DON'T end up divorced, and most of those marriages
are ok or better so why be such a pessimist?

Do your hishtadlus, davven and the odds are in your favor that your DD will be happy.


I don't think that's the choice. The choice is usually:
(1) never married (2%)
(2) happily married with or without children (50%)
(3) divorced without children (2%)
(4) miserably married with children (44%), ie., they would be seriously contemplating divorce if not for the fact that they have kids
(5) divorced with children (2%)

My attempt at the chances, but we can do a poll to be sure Smile
Back to top

zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 4:27 pm
You want to doom your dd to a life alone? You want to deprive her of the joys (and aggravations) of motherhood? You want to deprive her of even the possibility of a happy family life and the nachas of grandparenthood?

I'm sorry your personal experience ended in bitterness; it happens. But you had your chance. You may even still find happiness with someone else. People get married when they're residents of nursing homes, for goodness' sake. What you're trying to do is steal your daughter's chance to make her own decisions, make her own mistakes and make her own happiness--iow her entire future.

You don't have the right to do that, and if you try, the end result will not be pretty. Either your dd will resent your interference, rebel, and go her own way, or she will comply, grow old and bitter and resent you, anyway. Either way, you lose. And if your dd chas veshalom marries someone very wrong for her simply to get away from you, or because you kept her so wrapped in cotton wool that she had no chance to develop any kind of good judgment--she loses, too.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 4:49 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
Maybe we should.

How about starting a spinoff where we all show off and flaunt our good marriages?


that's something you should do privately inside your own head. showing off is never a good thing, even if you reject utterly the notion of ayin hara. and you just know that you'll be making umptyump imas jealous and depressed when you say all these wonderful things about your family life, even if you don't append instagrammable pics.
Back to top

behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 5:29 pm
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
I don't think that's the choice. The choice is usually:
(1) never married (2%)
(2) happily married with or without children (50%)
(3) divorced without children (2%)
(4) miserably married with children (44%), ie., they would be seriously contemplating divorce if not for the fact that they have kids
(5) divorced with children (2%)

My attempt at the chances, but we can do a poll to be sure Smile


I think it's more

Happily married 25 percent
Divorced with kids 7 percent
Unhappily married 50 percent
Miserably married 10 percent
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 6:13 pm
behappy2 wrote:
I think it's more

Happily married 25 percent
Divorced with kids 7 percent
Unhappily married 50 percent
Miserably married 10 percent


Wow you think 60% of married are miserable or unhappy and 7% are divorced?

I think you are way off.
Back to top

chestnut




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 6:34 pm
These percentages are scary.
I wanted to do a pull in Married Life section, but didn't the poll option. Only certain sections have it?
Back to top

amother




Cobalt
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 6:56 pm
I put a poll. Really curious to see its percentages.
Back to top

amother




Emerald
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 3:41 pm
Op I completely understand you. It’s a scary world out there.
My kids aren’t near shidduch age yet but there are two things that I’ve experienced when dating that I hope to put emphasis on with my kids:
1. Honesty. If DD can be honest with a guy, about her opinions, feelings, fears, open up to him... and he knows how to respond and be empathetic - that’s a great sign.
2. Make sure your priorities and your DDs are right. If you’re looking for money, yichus, looks- you might get all these but the guy will lack stability, personality, mentchlechkeit.
Teach your kids priorities - what really matters -and hopefully they’ll choose accordingly.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:15 pm
#1 Priority is good middos - someone who will treat your DD with respect.

Too many people assume that everyone has good middos. While I believe most do,
there are some bad apples out there and you don't want your DD to be a victim.

One must do hishtadlus (check out) and davven.

But choosing to never get married seems worse to me then even being divorced.
Back to top

behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:55 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Wow you think 60% of married are miserable or unhappy and 7% are divorced?

I think you are way off.


I was discussing with my husband on shabbos. He thinks 15 percent of Frum marriages end in divorce and 15 percent of Frum, marriages are miserable enough that they SHOULD end in divorce but don't.

What do you think the percentages are?
Back to top

amother




Rose
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:08 pm
amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:
I put a poll. Really curious to see its percentages.


Where can I find the poll?
Back to top

amother




Rose
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:17 pm
behappy2 wrote:
I was discussing with my husband on shabbos. He thinks 15 percent of Frum marriages end in divorce and 15 percent of Frum, marriages are miserable enough that they SHOULD end in divorce but don't.

What do you think the percentages are?


I think your husband is probably right. I think more than 15% marriages experience periods in their marriage when they are miserable enough to potentially divorce, but they get help, or other wise get passed it, and their relationships improve. Our communities place a high price tag on divorce, so we stick together, and ultimately many are happy in the long run (even if only to make the best of the unfortunate situation)
Back to top

amother




Babypink
 

Post  Sun, Aug 02 2020, 12:26 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
There I’ve said it.
She is the sweetest, kindest, most refined girl I’ve seen. She’s frum and so mature.
Her life is good. She has a great fulfilling job.

Why bother getting married.
The threads I read here are hair raising.
It just makes me so sad thinking of my precious daughter ending up with one of these jerks.
I don’t want to hear about red flags. Hundreds of people looked carefully and are suffering.

Whatever. I don’t even know what I want.


That’s a pretty scary attitude u got there...find a good therapist to talk to. Every person has a zivug, she needs to find hers so she can marry, raise a family and be happy.
Back to top

amother




Cobalt
 

Post  Sun, Aug 02 2020, 10:01 am
link to poll
Back to top

amother




Amber
 

Post  Sun, Aug 02 2020, 10:45 am
Although your concerns are real, it’s not fair to project them onto your daughter. Even if she is a fine innocent girl, she needs to go out and live her own life and make her own mistakes. You won’t be able to protect her forever.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Aug 02 2020, 10:56 am
You guys are all just making up figures out of your own heads based on nothing. Even if you set up a valid poll on imamother, that’s still a highly biased audience, skewed more heavily to ultra orthodox who nevertheless freely use the Internet. And the poll would be even more heavily biased towards women who have an I terestinparticipating in this sort of poll. My guess, made up entirely out of my own head, is that dissatisfied women would be more likely Than satisfied women to participate.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Recent Topics

Page 5 of 5 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Date night lakewood
by amother
2 Today at 3:43 pm View last post
Computer and filter for my 18 yr old daughter
by ladYdI
16 Yesterday at 11:51 pm View last post
Given food you don’t like— what’s right to do?
by amother
21 Yesterday at 4:08 pm View last post
If antibodies don’t last, what is a vaccine worth?
by amother
26 Yesterday at 1:09 am View last post
Anyone backing out of sending daughter to seminary in EY
by amother
103 Sun, Aug 09 2020, 4:01 pm View last post