How could hydrooxchloroquine be harmful?

Mommyg8

Sun, Aug 02 2020, 12:38 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Yes, you must have years of "education" also known as indoctrination to believe such
insanity as a Man is a Woman if he/she/it says he is!

It is well known that Free Speech does not exist on college campuses so how can you believe
that college produces people who are capable of critical thinking when critical thinking I.e.
DEBATE is forbidden on college?

BestBubby, according to Fox's recent definition of a troll, imasoftov is trolling you.

Don't worry, there is no way of knowing who on this site actually has any higher degrees or anything of that nature (we are all anonymous) so basically, imasoftov is exactly on the same point as she implies the rest of us are.

In any case, strangely enough, in the US it's doctors who I have read about and actually spoken to who are advocating the usage of this drug, and it's politicians who are the ones banning it. Curious who imasoftov thinks has more medical expertise - my doctor or Governor Cuomo?

imasoftov

Sun, Aug 02 2020, 12:54 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

There is a difference between satire and trolling.

Both your doctor (I hope) and Cuomo have been to university, don't trust either of them!

He had bought a large map representing the sea,
Without the least vestige of land:
And the crew were much pleased when they found it to be
A map they could all understand.

“What’s the good of Mercator’s North Poles and Equators,
Tropics, Zones, and Meridian Lines?”
So the Bellman would cry: and the crew would reply
“They are merely conventional signs!

“Other maps are such shapes, with their islands and capes!
But we’ve got our brave Captain to thank:”
(So the crew would protest) “that he’s bought us the best—
A perfect and absolute blank!”

-- Lewis Carroll, "The Hunting of the Snark"

gold21

Sun, Aug 02 2020, 1:17 pm

imasoftov wrote:

Yes, Cuomo has studied pharmaceuticals at length.....

amother

Jetblack

Sun, Aug 02 2020, 1:43 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Wrong again, Amarante! Plenty of countries are using HCQ very successfully!

The above chart shows that countries that permitted and encouraged hydroxy have a MUCH LOWER death rate than countries that discourage and prohibit hydroxy!

Also, the two studies showing HCQ was not effective were fraudulent and were WITHDRAWN by the Medical Journal.

Sorry I’m editing my post to corrrect the info .

We use chloroquine here.
Not to treat malaria, as most strains here are chloroquine resistant. It’s used to treat rA.

Regardless of anything. The info graphic is completely fake. It’s not being used widely in South Africa to treat covid at all. And there is still a very low death rate. So obviously it’s something else.

I have no clue about the other countries.

gold21

Sun, Aug 02 2020, 2:10 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

This is a false info graphic.
I am in South Africa in the medical field. They are not using HCQ to treat covid generally. (Are there possibly individual doctors using it. Probably. Different not in government)

Obviously, we do use HCQ for malaria. But if you look at a chart of the high impact areas of covid (Gauteng and Western Cape) these are not malaria zones. And people there will only take prophylactic malarial medication if traveling to a malaria zone (and most South Africans won’t take prophylactic malaria tablets in the winter as the side effects are irritating and the risk of contracting malaria is lower.) we are at the end of wInter. And there is officially no interprovincial travel allowed currently so basically my long winded post is to say that no one in the covid hotspots in South Africa is taking HCQ. And we still have a very low death rate.

But it’s not the HCQ.

Literally. People just make these things up.

Right, most South Africans are not on HCQ. And South Africa has the highest case numbers of covid in that region. By a long shot.

And correct, as you said, the African areas hardest hit by covid are not in malaria zones- translation, people there are not on HCQ.

And in the malaria zones, where people are on HCQ? How's covid looking there? Low case numbers almost across the board.

South Africa accounts for over 50 percent of cases on the continent.

Supermom#1

Sun, Aug 02 2020, 2:46 pm

Amarante wrote:

Do you realize how crazy your theory is?

No one in the world is using this treatment. It has been universally discredited by several scientific studies.

So you think all of the world’s scientists and doctors are conspiring with Democrats in the USA to prevent Trump’s election.

How can anyone leave their logic so behind and come up with conspiracies that defy all rational thinking.

"Several scientific studies" my foot! One of these so-called studies was exposed as fraudulent, another used a dose that would be appropriate for an elephant, another used deathly ill patients ....need I go on???

gold21

Sun, Aug 02 2020, 3:12 pm

From the WHO website:

"Fifteen countries in sub-Saharan Africa and India carried almost 80% of the global malaria burden. Five countries accounted for nearly half of all malaria cases worldwide: Nigeria (25%), Democratic Republic of the Congo (11%), Mozambique (5%), India (4%) and Uganda (4%)."

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OK, cool, so let's take a look at covid cases in these countries. I'll start with Nigeria:

From ScienceMag:

"So far, sub-saharan Africa has not faced the extreme numbers of cases and deaths from the novel coronavirus some public health experts feared would occur. Nigeria, the continent’s most populous nation, has reported only 33,000 cases and just under 750 deaths among its nearly 200 million citizens. (The number of daily reported cases more or less stabilized in June, after an increase since April.) Like everywhere else, the true toll is likely higher—testing in Nigeria is scant—but the country hasn’t seen overflowing hospitals."

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I'll now pull up stats on DR of the Congo:

Total population 78,736,000 (2016)

From UNHCR:

"As of 18 July, there were 8,403 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the DRC, with 193 reported deaths. No case has been confirmed amongst UNHCR’s persons of concern in the DRC so far."

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I won't post every country, but that's the basic idea.

I'll now compare to South Africa:

Population 57.78 million (2018)

From the BBC:

"Zweli Mkhize announced 10,107 new cases on Saturday, bringing the tally to 503,290, along with 8,153 deaths.

South Africa is the hardest-hit country on the continent and accounts for half of all reported infections in Africa.

South African health authorities have said the rate of infection is increasing rapidly, with cases currently concentrated around the capital, Pretoria."

gold21

Sun, Aug 02 2020, 3:58 pm

India:

"India has a relatively low Covid-19 mortality rate per capita compared to other hard-hit countries, with only 2.47 deaths per 100,000, compared with 45.24 in the US and 68.95 in the United Kingdom, according to Johns Hopkins University data. Experts have pointed to India's relatively young population as a possible explanation for the lower mortality rate, as the young are less susceptible to dying from coronavirus.

The potential impact of coronavirus on India's slum areas has been a concern since the pandemic began, with doctors warning that an outbreak would be unmanageable in places where residents live cheek-by-jowl in tiny homes with no running water, and share toilet facilities with several other families."

Also India:

"Despite the lack of clear evidence that the drug is safe or protects people from coronavirus infection, on 22 May an Indian health ministry task force released the advice for front-line workers, including the police and people conducting door-to-door surveys to estimate the COVID-19 burden to take hydroxychloroquine to prevent infection. The advice expands on a similar recommendation, made in March, in which the task force said that health-care workers caring for people with COVID-19, and household contacts of people with confirmed COVID-19, should also take the drug.

The task force says its latest decision is based on three new observational studies, conducted by government agencies, that it says show that the anti-malarial drug can prevent infection."

imasoftov

Sun, Aug 02 2020, 4:41 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Those of you who like to read REAL scientific articles might find the following link interesting:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....2869/

That says that it was effective against SARS-CoV (at the time the only SARS-CoV, but now known as SARS-CoV-1) in cell cultures (as Cobalt posted while I was writing this), not SARS-CoV-2 in organisms. This paper would have been a reason to test Chloroquine against the more recent virus, and if you click on the link in "This article has been cited by other articles in PMC" you'll find papers that do that.

amother

Pearl

Sun, Aug 02 2020, 5:07 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I know many people in their fifties who DIED. Many more who spent weeks or months on ventilators. I guess 50ish is elderly? If that's your criteria, I'm sure there are plenty of "elderly" people in KJ.

Dr. Zelenko specifically said he only gave the drug (with zinc) to high risk patients. Those either over 60 or who had other health conditions.

The reason many people in their fifties died is because it was so widespread. For each person who died there another few hundred or so in their fifties who lived, and yes, many of whom were also high risk. So as I keep saying, all this anecdotal evidence doesn't tell us anything. I can give you anecdotal evidence the other way - No one in my country was given hydrooxchloroquine and the vast majority in their 50's & 60's survived it. But, that's just not the way it works when testing or proving efficacy. We still don't know whether or not the hydrooxchloroquine helped them, or whether a placebo would have had the exact same results.

gold21

Mon, Aug 03 2020, 10:35 am

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

I do think HCQ is likely effective in many cases if used early enough, but I'm willing to wait for studies. Where are the studies? Ora linked one (the second study she linked) that looks interesting. I am looking forward to seeing the outcome. (By the way, thanks for linking it. It looks really cool!)

With that said, let's take a glance back at the first page of this thread. I see a handful of posts about how dangerous and risky this medication is. As it happens, it is not a dangerous or risky medication, but for some reason, this is a belief I see expressed all over the place.

Do some research of your own. The WHO lists it at a safe drug, as does the CDC, as do multiple studies on the NIH website. The FDA approved this drug many years ago..... All pre-covid of course.

Suddenly now, the WHO is very concerned about potential risks of a drug they themselves listed as safe for many years. As if they are completely unfamiliar with this medication. Risk of QT elongation! Oh my! Cardiac problems! Woe is us!

Wait, so were you wrong about this medication for all those years? Tsk tsk. That's not a good look, WHO. How many lives have been put at risk by all these institutions who we trust, such as the WHO, the CDC, the NIH, the FDA, who all agreed that this medication is low-risk. Until 2020, when it apparently became very high-risk.

Does it have potential side effects? Sure, like many medications. Any life threatening side effects? Rarely, like many medications.

It's a safe drug. And yet, people buy into the media hype without conducting their own research.

On social media, I have seen people speak with such hate about Dr Zelenko. Why? Because he believes in a protocol that is not yet entirely proven and which relies on anecdotal evidence as proof? So? Again, this isn't a risky medication. Even if there's no benefit, there is little risk of harm. In the scheme of things, it's a lot more harmful to publicly slander a fellow Jew all over social media. No, he's not a "snake oil peddler". Please. There is room to believe that this protocol could help. And in absence of anything that's a definite cure, offering a medication with possible anti-viral benefits seems like a logical choice.

So why all the hate?

Do your own research. The internet is a great tool to help develop your own opinions.