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How could hydrooxchloroquine be harmful?
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 7:05 pm
southernbubby wrote:
No but not every doctor will prescribe it nor will every pharmacy fill it.


again, correct
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 7:05 pm
ces wrote:
The dose used for covid is much higher than the dose prescribed for lupus.

Also, there are side effects and it can be toxic. As with every prescription drug, the doctor needs to weigh the risks and benefits. The fact that benefits outweigh risks for some conditions doesn't mean there are no risks or side effects.


what is the difference in the dosing?
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 7:07 pm
Amarante wrote:
It always had side effects. However the benefit to those needing it outweighed their potential risk factors especially when monitored as it would be.

Since there is no currently valid study indicating it has any benefit in treating Covid, the risks outweigh the benefit for that purpose.

Why in the world would people think that multiple scientists would have an agenda to not find treatments. I find the politicizing of science to be sad. Masks have also become politicized and there seems to be a correlation.


is there any outpatient study currently going on, studying the outcome of patients treated with a combination of zinc and hydroxychloroquine at symptom onset?

has there ever been any outpatient study looking at the outcome of patients treated with a combination of zinc and hydroxychloroquine at symptom onset?

if not, why not?
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 7:12 pm
Amarante wrote:
There are treatments at this point which have been shown to actually be helpful in treating COVID. They aren’t silver bullets but it would be medical malpractice to prescribe a dangerous drug which has been shown to be ineffective versus using those treatments which have been been demonstrated to be somewhat effective.


it is not a dangerous drug.

Hydroxychloroquine is the synthetic, safer, formulation of quinine. Quinine has been used since the 17th century.

If the drug were dangerous, it's FDA approval would have been pulled long ago.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 7:16 pm
Amarante wrote:
Do you realize how crazy your theory is?

No one in the world is using this treatment. It has been universally discredited by several scientific studies.

So you think all of the world’s scientists and doctors are conspiring with Democrats in the USA to prevent Trump’s election.

How can anyone leave their logic so behind and come up with conspiracies that defy all rational thinking.


Why do you say that nobody in the world is using it?

see below:

"By Ragip Soylu
in Ankara
Published date: 26 May 2020 13:49 UTC | Last update: 2 months 6 days ago
2.5k Shares

Turkey will continue to use a controversial anti-malarial drug, hydroxychloroquine, to treat coronavirus patients despite a study warning about its side effects and the WHO's decision to drop it from a global study, a senior Turkish official said on Tuesday.

“We are still using it,” the official told Middle East Eye, speaking anonymously in line with government protocol.

“It is very effective when combined with other drugs in the early stages of the disease. However we don’t see the same results in the later stages when the patient needs to be put on intensive care.”

Notoriously, US President Donald Trump has said he is taking hydroxychloroquine as a precautionary measure, despite concerns and questions over its effectiveness and safety.

'We are still using it. It is very effective when combined with other drugs in the early stages of the disease'- Turkish official

Ankara said last month that the drug, which is sold under the brand name Plaquenil, was playing a major role in reducing the rate of lung infection, or pneumonia, among Covid-19 patients.

Turkey stockpiled one million units of the drug in March before the virus reached a peak in the country, and several companies began work on producing a generic version in the country.

Health ministry statistics indicated that on 24 March, 60 percent of coronavirus cases registered were patients with pneumonia, while on 6 April that it had fallen to 19.5 percent, resulting in a decrease in death rates.

With 53.07 deaths per million, Turkey takes the 26th place in a list of countries measuring fatalities on that scale, doing considerably better than most western countries."
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 7:19 pm
While hydroxychloroquine isnt the perfect solution, access to it should not be restricted.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 7:53 pm
frumPA wrote:
It causes QT prolongation which can cause cardiac arrest. Its a side effect and I dont know what the statistics are with how often it happens but to risk that for a drug thats not effective makes no sense. We did give it to everyone in beginning of covid because we had nothing else to give but as of June it was stopped being given in the hospital since it was ineffective. And btw it was being given way before Trump announced about it. Its not a Trump thing.


the risk of cardiac arrest while on a low dose of hydroxychloroquine (which is the dose needed when covid is treated early, prior to hospitalization) is very rare. look it up. many studies have proven this.

alternatively, find me a drug with zero potential side effects.
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amother




Ivory
 

Post  Fri, Jul 31 2020, 7:57 pm
Thank you Op and Gold etc.

Right-- this is a very safe med used for many decades!

Fact: Our president touted it and suddenly there was a clamor to ban it. Full court press. Media. Social media. Fake and retracted study.

Would not have believed it if I hadn't witnessed it.

Stay safe and healthy!
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 2:54 pm
It doesn't make sense to talk about medicines as "safe" vs "harmful."

Every medicine has side effects. The question is only ever whether the benefit the medicine provides outweighs the risk.

Chemotherapy can be brutal but nobody is seriously suggesting it should be banned because it's "unsafe." And on the other hand, even medicines which rarely cause side effects, like tylenol and antibiotics, can be dangerous if used too frequently.


Last edited by ora_43 on Sat, Aug 01 2020, 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 3:05 pm
In any case AFAIK there's no ban on hydroxychloroquine due to danger. There are (were?) bans on outpatient use in New York, specifically, to make sure people wouldn't hoard it and affect the supply.

Chloroquine is not banned in Michigan, New York and Nevada

Plenty of states and countries either stockpiled hydroxychloroquine, or banned exports, or restricted use. Because they thought it was good medicine, not because they think it's bad medicine. And they didn't want a situation where Joe and Jane Hoarder bought a 50-year supply and there was none left for actual covid19 patients, and of course the people who needed it pre-covid.

Now there's been a swing in the other direction. Nothing to do with Trump, who was the American president in April (back when everyone was stockpiling) just as much as he is today.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 3:22 pm
Oh, and - yes, there have been studies that look specifically at hydroxychloroquine + zinc + etc early after diagnosis, and studies that look at hydroxychloroquine and azythromycin, and studies that look at hydroxychloroquine + half a dozen other things. At every stage.

Results have been mixed.

It hasn't been "discredited," and could still prove to be very useful, when used correctly and in combination with other medicines (as in: not just taken as a prophylactic by Joe and Jane Hoarder. That's pretty much been proven worthless, AFAIK.)

Eg check out this trial which found positive results - Outcomes of 3,737 COVID-19 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin

OTOH there have been other medications that have had promising results, too, and doctors who prefer other treatments have what to rely on.
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chmom




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 4:47 pm
Every single drug on the market can be harmful
Tylenol can cause liver failure
Aspirin can cause bleeding
And Hydroxychxloroquine can cause heart arrhythmia
The discussion about dangerous or not is completely irrelevant, there is no such thing as a completely safe medication
It’s all about the risk/ benefit ratio
Is the patient sick enough or will he/ she benefit enough from taking the drug that the risk of side effect will be tolerable
And so far are no studies that show enough benefit in COVID-19 patients to warrant taking that risk
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amother




Goldenrod
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 6:55 pm
Anyone know if the hydro + zinc + azithromycin treatment worked in KJ?
I've heard that Dr Zelenko and his team had very positive results with it there.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 7:26 pm
I'm not sure I understand why a medication would be given early in a Covid infection, considering that the vast majority of people get over it within a few days to a week, with very mild symptoms. If every person who started to show symptoms was given the protocol, many people would be getting it for no good reason, because they would recover just fine on their own.

For people who are at very high risk, the doses would have to be much larger. There is proof that the virus itself causes serious heart damage in many cases - so taking a medication that can cause irregular heartbeat seems like a pretty bad option.

If CVS I ever ended up getting the virus again, and ended up in the hospital, I would decline the protocol.

I'm allergic to Z-pac antibiotics. In me, they not only cause a full body rash, but a racing pulse and high blood pressure. If I were to have a bad reaction to hydrooxchloroquine, along with my underlying (very mild) mitral valve prolapse, the results would be 100% deadly.

What if I were unconscious? What if the doctor didn't pick up on my slight heart murmur? What would be the long term effects on my heart health if I managed to survive the treatment?

I survived a very severe case of Covid, and now I am having a lot of heart palpitations, even when I'm relaxing on the sofa and doing absolutely nothing. I'm hearing that this is really common, more common than originally thought.
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trixx




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 9:32 pm
Its not harmful.
The studies they quote are fake ie given more than the suggested dose and too late.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 9:37 pm
Amarante wrote:
It always had side effects. However the benefit to those needing it outweighed their potential risk factors especially when monitored as it would be.

Since there is no currently valid study indicating it has any benefit in treating Covid, the risks outweigh the benefit for that purpose.

Why in the world would people think that multiple scientists would have an agenda to not find treatments. I find the politicizing of science to be sad. Masks have also become politicized and there seems to be a correlation.



While there's no current study, there is quite a handful of doctors who are all claiming that it has helped treat their patients. Which means we are forced to believe 1 of 2 conspiracy theories:


1. Big pharma doesn't want a simple and cheap drug to be the cure. Instead they want a fancy expensive vaccine. Or....

2. Many doctors from all over the country who are not affiliated with each other and who all claim to have treated their patients with this drugs are in cahoots to fabricate this lie. The don't stand to gain anything from lying and it would be much easier and less controversial to conform and go along with the CDC.
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trixx




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 9:39 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
While there's no current study, there is quite a handful of doctors who are all claiming that it has helped treat their patients. Which means we are forced to believe 1 of 2 conspiracy theories:


1. Big pharma doesn't want a simple and cheap drug to be the cure. Instead they want a fancy expensive vaccine. Or....

2. Many doctors from all over the country who are not affiliated with each other and who all claim to have treated their patients with this drugs are in cahoots to fabricate this lie. The don't stand to gain anything from lying and it would be much easier and less controversial to conform and go along with the CDC.


Re #2
Simone gold, a dr in the white coat summit, lost her job after that.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 9:56 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
I'm not sure I understand why a medication would be given early in a Covid infection, considering that the vast majority of people get over it within a few days to a week, with very mild symptoms. If every person who started to show symptoms was given the protocol, many people would be getting it for no good reason, because they would recover just fine on their own.

For people who are at very high risk, the doses would have to be much larger. There is proof that the virus itself causes serious heart damage in many cases - so taking a medication that can cause irregular heartbeat seems like a pretty bad option.

If CVS I ever ended up getting the virus again, and ended up in the hospital, I would decline the protocol.

I'm allergic to Z-pac antibiotics. In me, they not only cause a full body rash, but a racing pulse and high blood pressure. If I were to have a bad reaction to hydrooxchloroquine, along with my underlying (very mild) mitral valve prolapse, the results would be 100% deadly.

What if I were unconscious? What if the doctor didn't pick up on my slight heart murmur? What would be the long term effects on my heart health if I managed to survive the treatment?

I survived a very severe case of Covid, and now I am having a lot of heart palpitations, even when I'm relaxing on the sofa and doing absolutely nothing. I'm hearing that this is really common, more common than originally thought.


No, a person who is at high risk would not require a higher dose of hydroxychloroquine, if the treatment were administered early. I'm curious, what made you suggest that? What is your source for this belief?

As for you declining hydroxychloroquine, that's your right.

As for someone else requesting hydroxychloroquine, that's between her and her doctor, and her right.

As for someone in an unconscious state recieving this treatment protocol, why would someone at symptom onset, in a outpatient setting (aka from her regular doctor) be unconscious? I'm confused.

If she's unconscious, she should be hospitalized.

There doesn't seem to much of a benefit of hydroxychloroquine administration in hospitalized patients, when the covid patient has already gotten to the point of requiring inpatient care, so I would imagine that the unconscious hypothetical person would not be given this medication, so no worries, then.

Z-pac is an add-on to the hydroxychloroquine-zinc protocol. It's thrown in to prevent bacterial pneumonia. One could still use the hydroxychloroquine-zinc protocol as an antiviral and skip the z-pac. Z-pac is an antibiotic and does not have antiviral benefits.
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amother




Pearl
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:07 pm
It isn't approved for use here in England either. So it's definitely not just because everyone is out to get Trump.
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amother




Pearl
 

Post  Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:09 pm
Dr. Birx: Randomized trials show benefit for remdesivir, but not hydroxychloroquine

https://www.foxnews.com/media/.....covid

In addition, note that Israel too is using remdesivir and not hydroxychloroquine.
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