Is this a violation of kibbud av ve’aim?

amother

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 6:59 pm

Disclaimer: I am not comfortable asking a rav this question so while I know this is not a place for shailos I wonder if anyone can share some insights.

If parents unfortunately disowned a married child because they don’t approve their behavior is a sibling allowed to remain in good terms with said child if it hurts the parents? The parents did not explicitly forbid the other kids from remaining in good terms but they feel it’s a given. They feel that out of respect for them the siblings should not invite that child to simchos etc.

What should a sibling and his/her spouse do if they want to remain in good terms with the “disowned” child thereby disrespecting the parents’ wishes?

amother

Pewter

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 7:13 pm

I actually am not sure. My siblings were told by my mother's Rav that having a relationship with me would disrespect her. I don't know if that qualified as a psak. It was super hurtful to me, and one of my siblings spoke to his own Rav who allowed him to have a relationship with me as long as it remained hidden.

On the other hand, knowing that my siblings were following a Rav, as hurtful as it was, helped me.

amother

Coffee

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 7:33 pm

My ds has asked many questions regarding the Halachos of Kibud Av with regard to his abusive father (my ex). What he has been told is to talk respectfully to his father. He is not obligated to stay with his father for Shabbos if his father will be abusive.

His abusive father (my ex) has made unreasonable demands of my ds, telling everyone that my ds is not doing Kibud Av. Contrary to popular opinion, a parent does not have the right to make unreasonable demands at the expense of the child (based on what my ds has been advised by his Rav). Therefore, it follows that the fault lies with the parent for making unreasonable demands that siblings don't talk to each other. It follows that of course under these circumstances you can have a relationship with a sibling.

amother

Puce

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 7:36 pm

The chofetz Chaim writes that it's assur for children to continue the machlokes of their parents, even if the parents think they should out of respect.
Also, fwiw, in my family one of my siblings is estranged from my parents (they mutually cut each other off). Some siblings also cut her off. I happen to be very close, closest to my parents, and I'm also extremely close to the cut off sibling. No one minds. I like to think my mother gets some comfort from the fact that I'm in touch with her and making sure she's ok.

amother

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 7:36 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

What they don’t know can’t hurt them.

Right. My question is when it comes to public scenarios especially family simchos.

amother

Thu, Aug 06 2020, 7:49 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

Ouch! So sorry!

Bubby6

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 6:42 pm

I wonder if it's a different answer depending on what happened? For example, marrying out, same s*x marriage, maas on someone, that might be one answer. If it is a clash, argument, strong dislikes etc, then it might be more acceptable for you to keep in contact.

amother

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 6:49 pm

Bubby6 wrote:

It’s the first half category

amother

Navy

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 6:59 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It’s the first half category

If you massered someone in the family then the reactions are not always rational.

I'm refraining from massering because I hate to think how I'm going to be treated.

Zehava

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 8:49 pm

It is not a violation of kibbud av to make your own choices in life. Kibbud av is not a blanket license for parents to control their adult children.

nchr

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 8:51 pm

Unmarried sibling should probably not, but inevitably will. A married sibling can choose to have a relationship with another married sibling without their parents approval, but shouldn't advertise it. A married sibling should not bring an unmarried sibling into a dramatic situation.

ETA if you're speaking about a very dysfunctional situation where an unmarried kid is being tortured, etc. it is a different situation. I'm referring to normal dynamics.

amother

Firebrick

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 8:53 pm

Ask your Rav. Each situation is different and believe me, it will only simplify things if you know that you are making the correct choice.

amother

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 8:56 pm

I already discussed it on another thread already. I’m not sure why this was bumped today. In my case it’s married sibling and spouse and kids who are not religious anymore and the parents don’t want the other siblings and families to be in contact with them. So my question was if we are in contact is it a violation. We don’t have a rav we feel comfortable to discuss it with.

Zehava

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 8:58 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No it isn’t

amother

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 9:05 pm

Zehava wrote:

No it isn’t

Thanks. I feel like you have more to say on this subject. Care to share?

Zehava

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 9:13 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thanks. I feel like you have more to say on this subject. Care to share?

As I said before, kibbud av is not a carte Blanche license to control one’s adult children. Kibbud av has specific halachos such as not drawing blood, not contradicting them to their face, etc.
your parents have no right to dictate who you have a relationship with. You are not a tool to punish your sibling for going otd.