How do you feel when you leave someone outside?

Reality

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:08 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

That’s great. Nothing to do with the op. I don’t expect people to take anyone in long term. That is way above and beyond what is expected of anyone. Leaving a kid you know on your couch for a couple of hours, that’s so easy, it can hardly be counted as a favor....

Maybe for you it's easy. For someone else it isn't. Why can't you see that?

People have different personalities. People have different amounts of cleaning help.

Aren't there chasadim that are hard for you and easy for other people?

Stop thinking what is easy for you is easy for everyone!!!

WhatFor

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:14 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yes, as I said before, it's in switserland in a vacation area and my son was heading to camp.
And again, my son did manage, he's fully ok bh, he even didn't want to tell me the story in the beginning, claiming it's loshn horah!
My only question here was, as it says in the title, how was this lady feeling after you know a tired boy is sitting outside your door. You didn't let him in and didn't arrange anything it give him ideas. Can you enjoy such a trip? That's my only question, as I wouldn't.

Hi OP, just because there's been a lot of back and forth on this between other posters, can you please clarify:

When you say "neighbor" can you explain what you mean? Do they actually live on your street? Does the neighbor's wife know your son, as in he's grown up knowing them and they see each other all the time? I don't know that that would change anyone's opinion, but I'm curious.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:17 am

Reality wrote:

It doesn’t have to be easy, but it’s still common decency. So I can definitely understand why someone might find it hard to do, I can definitely not understand why someone would leave someone they know on their doorstep.

Reality

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:30 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Exactly! So maybe there is more to the story that we don't know? Because the way OP presented the story makes NO sense! A normal frum family wouldn't behave like that to a normal frum boy. So obviously, we are missing a LOT of pertinent information!

amother

Violet

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:34 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

We can't assume it's easy for everyone even if it seems that way bec it's easy for most people. I'm an introvert plus have social anxiety and having someone sit on my couch for a few hours (whether or not I know them) would be a really really hard favor for me, even if I don't entertain them or anything. My whole day will revolve around it and I'd basically be giving my day up. Knowing someone is sitting and listening/seeing everything I'm doing would get me so nervous and I won't be able to act natural towards my kids or do the things I planned or even just relax and read a book...

But yeh I agree with you there a no way I'd leave someone out like that (even if it means I'd probably spend alot of my day sitting outside with my kids instead of him to get away if that would happen)

mommy3b2c

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:36 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

Not so easy here. I'm an introvert plus have social anxiety and having someone sit on my couch for a few hours (whether or not I know them) would be a really really hard favor for me, even if I don't entertain them or anything. My whole day will revolve around it and I'd basically be giving my day up. Knowing someone is sitting and listening/seeing everything I'm doing would get me so nervous and I won't be able to act natural towards my kids or do the things I planned or even just relax and read a book...

But yeh I agree with you there a no way I'd leave someone out like that (even if it means I'd probably spend alot of my day sitting outside with my kids to get away if that would happen)

And that is because you are a normal, decent person with a good heart. Thank you for being kind.

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:37 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Unless we have access to that person's side of the story, all we can say is that we wouldn't do it to the child of a family that we know under normal circumstances.
I remember when someone who I know took in boarders who came from other cities to attend high school and the boarders blabbed everything that went on in her house to the others in the community. I can understand the reluctance to let in people who might not say the nicest things. It would be interesting to hear from the perspective of the would be hostess.

ora_43

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 10:38 am

I do think that letting someone in should be the default, especially in a situation where they're been on a bus all night and are tired and hungry.

I just think that

1. it is the husband, aka the one who actually spoke to the kid and made a (poorly worded) commitment to help, who owed him some kind of explanation/ apology/ help finding somewhere to be.

2. in this particular case, there are several good explanations that come to mind fairly quickly. The couple didn't realize that the kid wasn't OK with waiting outside (it sounds like he was being pretty upbeat about it - which, good for him, he sounds like a good kid - so maybe they misread that). The couple had no idea that he even would be waiting outside, they just assumed he'd find something to do. Someone in the family is high-risk for covid and it just wasn't safe. It wasn't allowed under the terms of their rental. They had no idea that he was planning to wait for them at their house and had assumed that "we'll be out" implied "we'll be out, so you'll have to be elsewhere" - and when he showed up they didn't know how to respond, and ended up responding poorly and feeling bad about it later. Etc.

3. the kid doesn't seem 100% aware that he was asking for a big favor, and a lot of trust. I don't blame him in the slightest, but it's something to be more aware of next time - along with the need, always, to have backup plans or at least a way to make backup plans (ie, cash + phone + a sense of what the alternatives are).

Miri1

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 11:02 am

I don't know what was going on between the couple, or why the wife felt the way she did.

In answer to OP's question: She may not have enjoyed her day, knowing the boy was outside, but she may not have felt she had the choice. And we will never know what was going through her mind.

Also, if this is an identifiable story to the woman herself (and possibly others) I can imagine it would be quite horrifying to read through this thread.
There is so much judgement here, in all directions.
Maybe it's time to put it all to rest.

ExtraCredit

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 11:04 am

Miri1 wrote:

She will also see that a nice amount of posters kept saying that we can’t judge her.

amother

Cerulean

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 11:07 am

Miri1 wrote:

OP IS on this thread and seems to take no responsibility for her part in her son being left to his own devices and certainly no responsibility or care for the part she played in possibly ruining this couples vacation, sholom bayis or at the very least taking time and money (gas) from them to make her sons life easier

lilies

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 11:14 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

For you!
Not for me.
It would upset me to the point of ruining my family's life for the next week.
I would cancel my trip and 'babysit' rather than leaving a kid on my couch for the day. I would also think 50 times before agreeing to do a chessed I can do, due to not wanting to be surprised like this.

Can you think of something that you find hard to do? I'd love to see the tables turned here.

silverlining3

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 11:20 am

270 comments and still going back n forth. WOW!

I think every single mom who ever had or will have an experience of where their child was-will be left out, wherever and for whatever reason, felt-will feel terrible for their child and hard to think how someone was able to do it. It's our instinct! Sometimes it takes a while till we realize what's really going on.

Now to op, sometimes I can also be like, how and why can't someone do something? It's nothing for me. It's the easiest of any other favor etc etc. But life experiences taught me, NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE ME! Because I do things, I can't and shouldn't expect someone to do it back. It's hard, but true.

amother

Cerulean

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 11:49 am

silverlining3 wrote:

and in the same vein, those who pride themselves on being independent and do their best not to rely on others and dont feel entitled to freebies should try and understand that some people are more needy and may find it easy to do what they are asking and are totally clueless that they are inconveniencing others

Reality

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 12:17 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

No. My experience in life has shown me time and time again that the people who ask for favors all the time don't find it easy to do those favors for others.

They are very quick to complain. Oh you are going anyway. What's the big deal etcc.. But when you ask them once for something all of a sudden the excuses come pouring out!

BTDT.

amother

Jetblack

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 12:34 pm

I find it hard to believe so many imas wouldn’t blink to drive someone an hour away = 2 hours. I would consider that a HUGE favor. My child was boarding for school an hour away and it was always a very big deal to find rides. I drove
Him back and forth myself a lot. I never once got an offer from anyone to drive him if they weren’t anyway going that way. I would never dream to ask anyone- not even close family members to drive him special. It would be a huge favor.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 1:06 pm

I read 2 pages of this thread and it's not really clear to me what the actual scenario was. Like, were they home when he showed up and they refused to let him in? Or were they away but they were supposed to somehow arrange to let him in? They should have planned his day for him and suggested for him things to do/places to go?

I have heard from people who live in Europe or other vacation-type destinations that people just show up on their doorstep expecting accommodations without having made plans in advance, and that's not really fair to them. Everyone understands when plans go awry but not when you failed to plan in the first place.

We ARE the type to take people in last minute etc. but I can still understand why other people's comfort levels are not mine, and not to judge if they can't offer hospitality the same way I would. Also, when I have guests I serve whatever we have in the house and whatever I was planning to serve my own family but I don't pull together 5-course meals for guests. I don't know how some hostesses pull together a lavish spread for unexpected guests at 2 a.m. I admire them but I wouldn't consider myself remiss that I can't do the same.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 1:09 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

Which imas wouldn’t Blink? Exactly the opposite. Everyone said that doing that favor is so huge, that it excused leaving the boy on their doorstep all day.

Reality

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 1:13 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

Exactly. I have a person in my life who had a similar circumstance. Nobody ever offered to drive for her. Instead, she got a lot of people asking favors from her because she was driving anyway!!

The one time she really needed help those same people flat out said no to her. It was too hard etc.

So please. It was really nice for this man to drive your son out of his way. You don't mention if you offered to pay for gas and tolls. Your son took it quietly because he is used to being pawned off on others. If he truly was the independent type he would have taken public transportation. Or maybe he imbibed OP's way of thinking of why pay if someone else can do it for me for free!

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Aug 09 2020, 2:26 pm

Reality wrote:

No. My experience in life has shown me time and time again that the people who ask for favors all the time don't find it easy to do those favors for others.

[b]They are very quick to complain. Oh you are going anyway. What's the big deal etcc.. But when you ask them once for something all of a sudden the excuses come pouring out![b]

BTDT.

This. Big time! I learned to say no to certain people. They are parasitic in their demands for favor. But oh boy, just try asking them for help!!

Not saying that this is OP, just in general.