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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 10 2020, 10:11 am
Go for it!


Btw:
There's a daily Mishna WhatsApp, designed especially for Daf Yomi Learners, that I highly recommend. It gives a great preview of the topics in the daf and also finds time to squeeze in the 20+ mesechtas that Daf Yomi doesn’t cover, during the Daf Yomi cycle. Since we are about to begin Eruvin, now is a great time to join. You should check it out!

https://chat.whatsapp.com/I7vV.....ukpPa

(I actually learn the Mishna with Kehati on Shabbatot, but posting this group for anyone who might find it useful. I just listened to his introduction to Eiruvin which was excellent.)
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amother




Blonde
 

Post Mon, Aug 10 2020, 3:38 pm
Thanks Aylat - as always. I’ll jump I first to see what color I get this time lol.

ETA -It’s Mustard.
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amother




Blonde
 

Post Mon, Aug 10 2020, 3:42 pm
Aylat wrote:
Go for it!


Btw:
There's a daily Mishna WhatsApp, designed especially for Daf Yomi Learners, that I highly recommend. It gives a great preview of the topics in the daf and also finds time to squeeze in the 20+ mesechtas that Daf Yomi doesn’t cover, during the Daf Yomi cycle. Since we are about to begin Eruvin, now is a great time to join. You should check it out!

https://chat.whatsapp.com/I7vV.....ukpPa

(I actually learn the Mishna with Kehati on Shabbatot, but posting this group for anyone who might find it useful. I just listened to his introduction to Eiruvin which was excellent.)


Sounds great. Wish I could find the time. It’s difficult enough to keep up with the Daf & Zichru . . .
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 10 2020, 4:05 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
Thanks Aylat - as always. I’ll jump I first to see what color I get this time lol.

ETA -It’s Mustard.


Heh, another yellow shade 💛 Wink
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 10 2020, 4:07 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
Sounds great. Wish I could find the time. It’s difficult enough to keep up with the Daf & Zichru . . .



I'm thinking of restarting Zichru this masechta. I'll see how it goes.
I don't manage to listen to the whatsapp shiurim, but reading through a perek of Mishnayot on Shabbat doesn't take me long, and really helps when we get up to each mishna on the daf.
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amother




Blonde
 

Post Mon, Aug 10 2020, 4:15 pm
Aylat wrote:
Heh, another yellow shade 💛 Wink


Again - my least favorite color family . . . Why not some blues, greens, purples ? ? ?
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amother




Blonde
 

Post Mon, Aug 10 2020, 4:19 pm
Aylat wrote:
I'm thinking of restarting Zichru this masechta. I'll see how it goes.
I don't manage to listen to the whatsapp shiurim, but reading through a perek of Mishnayot on Shabbat doesn't take me long, and really helps when we get up to each mishna on the daf.


I fell behind in Zichru on Shabbos (due to Corona crisis, etc.), but I worked on catching up (before the end of the masechte). I now have a “Zichru Buddy,” and we review 5 blatt in Brachos and 5 blatt in Shabbos each day. I’m also trying to do additional review on my own. I really want to increase my retention . . .
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 10 2020, 4:22 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
I fell behind in Zichru on Shabbos (due to Corona crisis, etc.), but I worked on catching up (before the end of the masechte). I now have a “Zichru Buddy,” and we review 5 blatt in Brachos and 5 blatt in Shabbos each day. I’m also trying to do additional review on my own. I really want to increase my retention . . .


Wow. Kol hakavod.
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amother




Blonde
 

Post Mon, Aug 10 2020, 4:26 pm
Aylat wrote:
Wow. Kol hakavod.


Just to clarify - review means reviewing Zichru points and simanim (not the entire Daf). Wish I could do more, but it’s hard enough finding time for that . . .
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malki2




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 10 2020, 4:37 pm
Hatzlacha to everyone!

Last edited by malki2 on Tue, Aug 11 2020, 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 11 2020, 6:04 am
(This post relates to Brachot not Eiruvin.)

Guess where I am this morning?


Which immediately rang a bell in my head...
ברכות מד
האוכלי פירות גינוסר
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 11 2020, 2:32 pm
In order to really enjoy and get the most of Eruvin..


Make sure you get the picture book, with excellent diagrams..

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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2020, 1:14 am
Eruvin 2: What Is An Eruv?

Talmud from My Jewish Learning
to me


A Daily Dose of Talmud




Daf Yomi

Eruvin 2



Welcome to tractate Eruvin! If you’ve been on the Daf Yomi journey with us for a while, then you know we just finished Tractate Shabbat. But we are not really leaving that subject matter behind. Eruvin is in many ways a continuation of the previous tractate, for reasons that will become clear momentarily.


In tractate Shabbat, the rabbis of the Talmud were primarily concerned with defining and avoiding melachah, prohibited Sabbath labor. And while they explored many different kinds of labor, from writing to cooking to building, we also saw that from the very first page the most perplexing and preoccupying labor of the tractate was hotza’ah — carrying items from the private domain into the public domain (and vice versa).


The prohibition on carrying is complex to legislate, which is perhaps why the rabbis kept returning to it throughout the 157 pages of tractate Shabbat. We saw discussions about what exactly constitutes a public domain versus a private domain (and that odd intermediary, the karmelit), about the difference between carrying and wearing, about throwing objects that might accidentally land in one domain or the other, and more. It is also a particularly inconvenient prohibition. It means you can’t casually grab a loaf of bread from your kitchen table and bring it to your friend’s house across the street for a shared Shabbat meal. Or tote your house keys to synagogue. Or schlep a child through the streets in a stroller.


To ease the burden of this restriction, the rabbis devised the concept of an eruv, a way of combining various private and public domains together (eruv literally means “mixture”) to create a space that, for the purpose of carrying, is considered one private domain. For example, if a city is walled, that wall constitutes an eruv and observant Jews may carry items anywhere within it. But although a city wall serves as an eruv, a community without a pre-existing structure can construct an eruv to allow its residents to carry. These days, an eruv is often simply a wire strung on poles. (Learn more about the basics of eruv here.)


This tractate legislates all the nitty-gritty details of eruv construction. We start right in at the beginning with a mishnah discussing a basic eruv that turns a three-sided public alley, with entrances to courtyards on all three sides, into a private domain for the purpose of carrying on Shabbat. This succeeds if the entrance to the alley is appropriately encased. But what exactly does that look like? The mishnah explains:


If the cross beam that spans the entrance to the alleyway is more than twenty cubits high, one must lower it to less than twenty cubits.

Rabbi Yehuda says: He need not.

If the entrance to the alleyway is wider than ten cubits, one must diminish its width. However, if the entrance to the alleyway has the form of a doorway (I.e., two vertical posts on the two sides, and a horizontal beam spanning the space between them) even if it is wider than ten cubits, he need not diminish it.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2020, 5:21 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
In order to really enjoy and get the most of Eruvin..


Make sure you get the picture book, with excellent diagrams..



Good to have you back naturalmom!
Thanks for the recommendation- which publisher is it?
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2020, 5:26 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
And while they explored many different kinds of labor, from writing to cooking to building, we also saw that from the very first page the most perplexing and preoccupying labor of the tractate was hotza’ah — carrying items from the private domain into the public domain (and vice versa).


The prohibition on carrying is complex to legislate, which is perhaps why the rabbis kept returning to it throughout the 157 pages of tractate Shabbat. .


I had this question throughout masechet Shabbat. Why so much הוצאה?? I had this question right at the beginning, and Tosafot says we start with הוצאה because it's a מלאכה גרועה. But we don't just start with it - I'd guess there's more words discussing הוצאה than all the other מלאכות put together. Why?
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2020, 4:01 pm
Eruvin 3





A Daily Dose of Talmud

Daf Yomi for Everyone, from My Jewish Learning







Yesterday, we learned that a sukkah and the crossbeam that makes it permissible to carry in an alleyway on Shabbat have a height limit of 20 amot (cubits). On today’s daf, the Gemara raises a question: What if the height of the sukkah and the crossbeam is uneven, with some sections above 20 amot and other sections below?


If part of the cross beam of an alleyway is within twenty cubits of the ground, and part of the cross beam is above twenty cubits, and similarly, if part of the roofing of a sukkah is within twenty cubits, and part of the roofing is above twenty cubits, what is its legal status? Rabba said: In the case of an alleyway, it is fit; in the case of a sukkah, it is unfit.


Rabba’s answer is that the uneven crossbeam in an alley isn’t a problem; you can still carry within it on Shabbat. But for a sukkah, the situation is different. A sukkah whose roof is partially above 20 amot and partially below 20 amot is unfit for use on the holiday. Why would Rabba make such a distinction?


The Gemara offers this explanation:


Rava from Parzakya said: A sukkah, which is generally erected for an individual, if the portion of the roofing below twenty were removed and only the portion above twenty remained, he would not be reminded to lower the remaining roofing and would dwell in a sukkah that is unfit. An alleyway, in contrast, which is used by many people, if the section of the cross beam below twenty cubits were removed, they would remind each other to remedy the situation.


According to Rava of Parzakya, the rabbis could be lenient in the case of the alleyway because they can depend upon the public to ensure that the construction error is fixed; but in the case of a sukkah, which is a private structure, there is no one to remind the owner to adjust the height and so the law must be more stringent.


As it happens, the Gemara reports an alternate tradition about Rabba’s teaching, that in fact it is the sukkah with an uneven roof that is fit for use and the alleyway in which it is forbidden to carry on Shabbat. What’s the reason here? Again, Rava of Parzakya gives us the answer — with precisely the opposite logic:


In the case of a sukkah, which is generally erected for an individual, he casts responsibility upon himself and is reminded to make certain that the roofing is fit. In the case of an alleyway, which is used by many people, they are likely to rely upon each other and are not reminded to check the height of the cross beam.


In this case, Rava of Parzakaya explains that the rabbis were lenient with a sukkah because its owner, having no one else to depend upon, would be diligent to ensure that it was constructed properly. But in the case of the alleyway, people might assume that the initiative to correct the error would be taken by others, so the law had to be more stringent.


So which is it? Do we depend more on the public to take corrective action and prevent an infraction upon the law? Or do we assume that a private structure, in which the owner can rely on no one but themselves, is more reliable?


The Gemara doesn’t tell us. Nor does it tell us which of the oral traditions regarding Rabba’s ruling is the more authentic one. Both get equal treatment in the text.


As we’ve seen many times already, the Gemara is more interested in understanding the reasoning behind the rulings than in arriving at a final resolution. But if you’re curious, later authorities rule in accordance with the opinion of Rava, a sage that does not appear in discussion above, who rules that both are permissible: an alleyway with an uneven crossbar can be carried in on Shabbat and a sukkah with an uneven roof may be used on the holiday.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2020, 4:27 pm
Interesting where many of our axiums and expressions come from..


Kedera d Bei Shutfi Lo Karira V Lo Chamima

Too many cooks spoil tthe broth
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Aug 13 2020, 6:14 am
Eiruvin 4

ארץ חטה ושעורה וגו' ואמר רב חנן כל הפסוק הזה לשיעורין נאמר

as previously seen on ברכות מא

Thank you Zichru!
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Aug 13 2020, 6:24 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
Interesting where many of our axiums and expressions come from..


Kedera d Bei Shutfi Lo Karira V Lo Chamima

Too many cooks spoil tthe broth


Eiruvin 3

I immediately thought of that proverb too.

מבוי דלרבי' היא סמכי אהדדי ולא מדכרי
Also of modern psychological theory of diffusion of responsibility https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik.....ility and the bystander effect (anyone familiar with the Kitty Genovese case?) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik.....fect.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Aug 13 2020, 11:05 am
Eruvin 4








Eruvin is considered to be one of the most difficult tractates in the Talmud, and for good reason — it is notoriously detailed and technical. And we get a taste of that on today’s daf.



On yesterday’s daf, the rabbis discussed whether the crossbeam on an alleyway entrance counted as an eruv if it was taller than 20 amot, normally translated as “cubits.” Today, the rabbis are deep in debate over another common talmudic unit of measurement — a tefach, or a handbreadth.



If we wanted to measure out centimeters or inches today, we would reach for a ruler marked at regular intervals. But the rabbis didn’t have standard measurements like we do. So they measured length and distance by body parts or human motion: a finger, a handbreadth, a pace. Jewish law is one way we make sense of God’s world, so just like the Torah, which lives and breathes alongside the Jewish people, these rabbinic measurements are also full of life.



I am reminded a joke my husband told me years ago that I never understood

He said it was a chesed from Hashem, that there are no lady Briskers.
There would be no future generations.
They would always be too nervous to accept that their tevila was kosher.
Maybe a hair was out of water, maybe there was a chatziza..


According to Rav Hanan, all the laws of measurements can be derived from a verse describing the sweetness and abundance of the promised land. How much can a person carry on Shabbat and not be liable? The volume of a dried fig. How broken must a vessel be such that it can no longer transmit ritual impurity? It must have a whole the size of a pomegranate. How large must a bone from a corpse be before it can impart ritual impurity? The size of a barleycorn.



While these discussions might seem cold and technical, they’re actually deeply human. Try learning today’s daf without demonstrating a spread fist or a relaxed one with your own hand, or by imagining the size of a pomegranate on your plate. Halachic life is a part of us. As we explore Eruvin together, let’s remember that there is deep spiritual knowledge, imagination and creativity behind these measures.
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