Do you say hello to male neighbors?

ExtraCredit

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 8:51 pm

Yehudit, yehudis

crust

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 8:54 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

Yehudit, yehudis

For a minute I thought that this was how one man called his neighbor. He tried all versions until he got her attention.

Then I went back to the previous page.
Ok. Time to log off.

ExtraCredit

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 8:55 pm

crust wrote:

For a minute I thought that this was how one man called his neighbor. He tried all versions until he got her attention.

Then I went back to the previous page.
Ok. Time to log off.

In that case it was, gut Shabbat (or Shabbat shalom) vs gut shabbos LOL

amother

Yellow

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:01 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

Taf and saf are very often interchanged. I’m thinking of names that come to mind. Basya, Batya. Natan, Nasan,

There are rules of dikduk.
A 'tof' in the beginning of the word is with a dagesh- which means 'tof' not 'sof'

ExtraCredit

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:04 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

There are rules of dikduk.
A 'tof' in the beginning of the word is with a dagesh- which means 'tof' not 'sof'

I guess that poster either didn’t learn that in school, or graduated too long ago.
I don’t remember learning that either. Interesting. So in the middle or end of a word it’s ok to change? Isn’t that prejudice?

amother

Yellow

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:12 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

There are more rules about dageishim. Its rules for loshon kodesh. Modern day hebrew doesnt always follow those rules, I think they do 'tof' for everything.

naturalmom5

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:14 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

I don’t remember reading anywhere that he was unhealthy.
They were oiver on yichud but it started from being nice and metchlich and helpful.

It’s ok I don’t need my neighbour to help me bring in my groceries, I’ll manage.
A nod hello is the most I’m comfortable with.

Just from the tone of your post, it screams neurosis, and emotional issues..

Nothing to do with yiddishkeit...

Once , I sense the slightest bit of hostility in a man or woman , and I know in my heart, that my husband have never done anything to offend them..

I know this isnt DARCHECHA DARCHEI NOAM

and THIS ISNT TORAH...

ExtraCredit

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:16 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

There are more rules about dageishim. Its rules for loshon kodesh. Modern day hebrew doesnt always follow those rules, I think they do 'tof' for everything.

Well then, isn’t that “tough”?
Back to tarba-ing sicha with the male neighbor... what’s the bottom line?

amother

Yellow

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:28 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

Well then, isn’t that “tough”?
Back to tarba-ing sicha with the male neighbor... what’s the bottom line?

Yes, its 'tarbe'.

The exception to that rule is when it comes right after these letters א,ה,ו,י.
(But this should really be a spin off)

WhatFor

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:34 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

Yes, its 'tarbe'.

The exception to that rule is when it comes right after these letters א,ה,ו,י.
(But this should really be a spin off)

I agree this should be a spin-off. But in any case, the examples provided were examples of "saf" words where they are pronounced in modern Hebrew with a taf... But that's off topic to the taf in the beginning of the word being pronounced as a taf like Tamar.

ExtraCredit

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:55 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

Yes, its 'tarbe'.

The exception to that rule is when it comes right after these letters א,ה,ו,י.
(But this should really be a spin off)

Ha, I asked what’s the bottom line as far as the conversing goes. I was done with dikduk, wanted to go back to the topic, cuz felt it’s not appropriate for this thread.

amother

Blue

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:55 pm

crust wrote:

Thats why I called that an anecdote. Its not important what happened to one man/couple. It doesnt make a chumra necessary.

Its very good that you don't need help. I also don't need.
I think we are rockstars!

You really believe it only happened once to one man?
Let’s not be naive.

amother

Blue

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:58 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

I’m sorry that you don’t like my tone and that you think I have emotional issues.
Thank goodness I really don’t.

And how can you say this isn’t Torah if this is the minhag in many places and endorsed by Rabbanim?
Maybe it’s not YOUR yiddishkeit.
Try to be a bit more open minded, y’know.

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 11:30 pm

There has definitely been a yerida in our generation.
Yes our grandmothers were not outside with beautiful wigs and lots of makeup. Maybe if we were all outside in tichels and minimal makeup greeting male neighbors wouldn't be as problematic. The truth is were supposed to be dressing up at home but today we do the opposite. Dressing up mostly outside where all our male neighbors can see us.
So greeting a male neighbor today is very different than generations ago. A woman greeting a man dressed in a gorgeous wig, makeup and all decked out is totally different than a woman greeting a man in a snood, no makeup and loose casual clothes.

Since we have an issue today with many women dressing up so much outside it seems like we need these gedarim more than ever.
Or better yet women should work on not dressing up so much outside the home. Its true sensitivity and consideration to be careful not to cause other men to look

crust

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 11:47 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

You really believe it only happened once to one man?
Let’s not be naive.

This is bli neder my last post here because it seems like you didn't read my posts you are just trying to argue.

To answer your question- No. I dont think so. I think that the reason it happened is not because he acknowledged her presence. *

If we go according to that then this problem shouldn't be prevalent anymore.

At least 98% of the people in frum communties don't acknowledge the opposite gender.

That means that we have 98% Ehrlich yidden.

I'm proud to be part of such a generation but the reality that we still see stories like the hoemewrcker begs the question;

If we are all so careful, how then are there still such stories?

Oh, it only happens to the 2% that aren't careful and they greet other women.
Is that what you're trying to say?

That's why I referenced מדרש איכה in a previous post. Read up about what happened then and you will see that these issues didn't pop up in the 20th century.

I know such stories fin der alter heim also and I'm sure you know them as well.

How do you explain that?

The answer is that human nature didn't change. Men and women should not have close relationships because it will lead to the inevitable.

Acknowledging a human being is a far cry from developing a close relationship.

Chazal gave us hilchos yichud. We have guidelines to prevent us from getting into a close relationship.

Not greeting is not one of those guidelines.
כל המוסיף גורע

Why our generation took it upon themselves to do so? Because we are in golus.
It has no other explanation.

* The reason it happened to the homewrecker is because he shmoozed casually with her (against halacha) he texted/wrote her in private (against halacha) and he developed not only a close relationship with her (against halacha) but an intimate relationship!! (against halacha -fire!)

amother

Blue

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 6:04 am

crust wrote:

It’s true that the yetzer hara wasn’t born in our times, it was always around and every generation had its own nisyonos with its own gedarim. (Like for example imagine sharing a bathroom with your whole block 24 hrs).

The Jews were praised that their tents’ doors weren’t facing each other.
Today literally every house has a door in the front and it’s not considered problematic at all.

Every generation has its own ways and gedarim to keep the Torah and protect themselves from the yetzer hara.
And every generation has its own Rabbanim who set up gedarim for that generation.

If this is a geder that some communities have in today’s times then nobody should make fun of it. There are big competent Rabbanim who endorse it.
By the way every generation had more pious and less pious people. Even Dor Hamidbar who was most pious of all still had the Erev Rav. Let’s not make it sound like in old times things were always perfect. The nisyonos and the yetzer hara was always around. They just change with the times and therefore so do the gedarim.
Daf Yomi is a new thing. It’s still unbelievably amazing for our times. Should we argue that if our grandfathers didn’t learn it then it’s a new unnecessary invention??

(And I really don’t mean to argue with you but you really believe that only 2 percent greet and initiate small talk with the opposite gender??? You wish!)

I’m sure you agree that “homewrecker” stories are much less prevalent among Torah observant Jews. There’s a reason.

The man in the example above transgressed halacha But it started very innocently. If he would just nod his head hello it would NEVER happen he would be much more protected from that slope. He and his wife just wanted to be nice so even she endorsed it.

We happen to have close connections with our neighbours. But if I need a paper to sign (one of them is a lawyer) I either go over with my husband or arrange it through his wife. Is it assur for me to call him straight? No. But this is how we do it.
And if he wasn’t a neighbour I’d call the office and arrange it with a professional secretary.
Just an example.
None of us are perfect we can all just try our best and hope and pray for the best.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 6:17 am

Unfortunately, every generation also has rabbis who make mistakes. Maybe our nisayon is pointing them out.

A man who can't tolerate the sight of half of humanity isn't sensitive, he's sick. Sensitivity means don't look directly at the sun, and you wear sunscreen as needed. If you can't bear to be outdoors in the sunlight, you don't have a sensitivity, you have a serious medical issue.

amother

Blue

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 6:26 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

A man is not allowed to look at a woman for pleasure. Every Jewish man.
Since it’s hard to determine when pleasure sets in many men try to avoid looking at women. It’s a geder some men have.
(The men in my family don’t. They just don’t stare. But I don’t make fun of chassidim who have this geder).

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 6:33 am

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

The halacha disagrees.
A man is not allowed to look at a woman for pleasure.
Since it’s hard to determine when pleasure sets in many men try to avoid looking at women. It’s a geder some men have.
(The men in my family don’t. They just don’t stare. But I don’t make fun of chassidim who have this geder).

Normal interaction isn't looking for pleasure any more than normal eating is gluttony. Healthy people act in healthy ways. Sensualizing normal interactions doesn't prevent wrongdoing, but it does a whole lot of damage to society as a whole and to women in particular.

thunderstorm

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 6:44 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

I very much agree with this. It makes me sad.
It’s messed up.