Davening for personal things at candlelighting

flowerpower93

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 1:04 pm

I know that you cannot daven for personal things on Shabbos and I also know that candlelighting is a special time for a woman to daven. I often say the pre-written tefillos at this time (I.e. the tefilah for your husband, children, parents etc.), but I always wondered if it is ok to daven in your own words at this time as well (I assumed it wasn’t allowed since you technically already accepted Shabbos upon yourself)? I would appreciate any insight on this. TIA

Frumme

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 1:15 pm

For sure! I generally will daven in my own words to Hashem while I still have my eyes covered. Things like shalom bayis, easy + healthy pregnancy/labor, parnassa, etc. It's a very special time for me.

This is specifically a good time for personal tefillah, same as with when taking challah or after mikvah immersion. The reason why it's allowed during candlelighting, from what I understand, has to do with the fact that you light and then cover your eyes and say the bracha (in Ashkenazic tradition). So as long as you haven't opened your eyes again to "see" that the shabbos candles were lit, it's not shabbos for you yet... but perhaps there is a better explanation somewhere.

Genius

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 2:57 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

I never knew that you're not supposed to daven for yourself after candle lighting. I won't stop anytime soon though because that would feel wrong to me.

I didn’t know either. Never heard this before. What’s the source?

Cheiny

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 3:00 pm

flowerpower93 wrote:

I was told by a rabbi that it’s okay to daven for all personal needs until shkia. After that it’s best to just daven for spiritual needs, as well as for singles to marry and have children, refuos for the ill....

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 3:04 pm

I heard that a woman can daven personal tefilos during candlelight if bec it is a special Eis Ratzon and Reb Kanievsky would Daven for very long by the candles (over an hour). But, I just heard in a shiur very recently that you should uncover your eyes right after the Bracha bec the Bracha is on the neiros and otherwise it would be a Bracha Livatola. So you should 1st say the Bracha with your eyes covered and then uncover and daven for whatever you want. Gut Shabbos!

amother

Emerald

Fri, Aug 14 2020, 3:47 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

This is exactly what I do

FranticFrummie

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 2:37 pm

I prefer to use that time for gratitude and praising Hashem's goodness. I guess I don't really ask for a lot for myself. I ask for lots of blessings for other people.

I always start my personal davening for giving thanks for every good thing I have, for giving me my daughter, and for bringing me to Israel. Then I ask that my daughter and I continue to be blessed for health, happiness, long life, and a love of Torah and mitzvot.

After that, I daven for everyone on my Tehillim list, for all the Imamothers, for klal Isroel, and for the IDF. Everyone should have a refuah sheliema, yeshua, a neis, comfort, consolation, and all their needs.

Bring Moshiach soon and in our days, and restore the Temple so we can serve You as in days of old.

amother

Aquamarine

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 10:15 pm

I asked my Rav recently (very yeshivish, and a true tzaddik living on a plane that most of us can’t fathom) and he said yes you can ask for anything in ruchnius, but not gashmius, on Shabbos. And it’s good to do so. I asked whether I was allowed to daven for something specific to work out for my teenage son regarding school for next year. The Rav said yes, yes, yes.

ShishKabob

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 10:42 pm

Listen, please ask away! Those that ask, get it! Hashem waits for our tefillos especially at this time. I was told I can ask whatever my heart desires at candle lighting time. And you better beleive that I do! And please cash in on it as well As! Bhatzlocha!

amother

Red

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 10:57 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

I hope you don't mind me asking, but do you believe that this is the system hashem uses? That those who ask get it, and those who don't ask get it less?

If I'm being honest and fair I have to admit that I don't see any correlation between those who are davening and staying healthy, having parnassa, and avoiding infertility and tragedy. Did people who daven suffer less from Covid? If anything, shul goers suffered worse.

Usually I hear that davening doesn't achieve results, it is only meant to enhance a person's relationship with hashem. Asking for a specific personal result, seems to go not really shtim with this idea.

ShishKabob

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 11:09 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

it is a mitzva in the Torah to daven for whatever we need. Yaakov avinu asked for food. Moshe Rabbeinu da ended to go into Eretz Yisroel. We don't know the ways of Hashem. But Hashem wants us to daven.
Korov Hashem Lichol Koiruv.
V es shavosom Yishma v youishee em.
Overall there's a concept that Hashem listens to prayers.
We may not get answered right away or there is a delay or there are mekatrigim stopping them etc.

amother

Red

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 11:22 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

Ok, I hear you. The avos davened. Chana davened. I don't think we can apply that hashem answers those who daven more than those who don't daven on a personal individual level from anything we've seen in the last 1000 years.

If you want to says it helps the relationship, fine. But truly getting a response? Look around. Those who daven and those who don't daven. Heath, parnassah, children, and every example you could think of.

ShishKabob

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 11:32 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

this is one of the ikrim in yiddishkeit. Countless people have had their prayers answered. Hopefully one day you will beleive this as well.

giselle

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 12:08 am

amother [ Red ] wrote:

I didn’t always get what I wanted when I davened for it, but overall if I look at the big picture of my life, I really did get a lot of what I davened for. Just perhaps not at that time.

amother

Red

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 12:22 am

giselle wrote:

I didn’t always get what I wanted when I davened for it, but overall if I look at the big picture of my life, I really did get a lot of what I davened for. Just perhaps not at that time.

I totally get that, but it's not about me or you or people that either of us know. It's about looking at everyone as a group as best we can.

Do you believe that frum people who daven got Covid less than others who don't daven?
Do you believe that frum people who daven have fewer fertility issues than others?
Do you believe that frum people who daven don't suffer from illness or disease as much as others?

I think we all know people who have davened and received a yeshua, but if we're being honest we all know people who don't daven and receive yeshuos. My question is taken as a whole, do people who daven statistically receive results more than those who don't daven?

PinkFridge

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 8:53 am

It is a great bracha and encouraging kiss from Hashem when we see people get better after tefilla, and tefilla seeming to "work." Because of course tefilla does work.
The question is, what happens if we don't see it work the way we want it to, or on the schedule we want it to.
What we have to measure is, how has tefilla changed us and our connection to the Only One with the power to bring about results?

amother

Rose

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 9:31 am

Frumme wrote:

And my husband learned that a woman should open her eyes right after the bracha and look directly at the candles to avoid a bracha livatala because we usually say a bracha then do the mitzva. Here we have to do the mitzva first, which is why we cover our eyes, but should have hana'ah right away. I guess everyone should ask their LOR

amother

Red

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 10:05 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Ok, Of course tefilah works. Let's all agree on that.

My question is whether tefilah works in a way where the benefits are measurable? If you see it is measurable in that way, can you give an example?

Meaning if we did a study on the benefits of drinking water vs soda. We tracked 10,000 people. Half of them drank 8 cups of water every day and no soda, and the other group drank 8 cups of soda and no water every day. Assuming most everything else was equal. (The water drinkers were not eating 10 chocolate bars a day) At the end of say 5 years, we could likely measure the health benefits of the water drinkers in a real way. The soda drinkers might be pre diabetic, overweight, lack nutrients, and have more cavities.

My question is if we followed 5000 daveners and 5000 non daveners. Would we notice the daveners are healthier, didn't catch covid or other illnesses, don't suffer from infertility as much, don't suffer from parnasah issues as much, or any other measurable metric? And if yes, what is the metric?