Should I encourage my DH to go to minyan when...

amother

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 11:53 pm

the minyan is still not inside the shul building and the location makes him uncomfortable and he is unable to have a shred of kavanah?

I very much dislike davening from the siddur these days. I just can't make myself to do it. So, although I have encouraged my DH to go to minyan in the past (especially when he is in a slump and feeling uninspired), I don't now.

Should I? Is this one of my roles as a wife?

DrMom

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 11:57 pm

If he feels so uncomfortable that he cannot daven with kavanah, why would you encourage him to go?

Just because *you* find it hard to daven from a siddur doesn’t mean he does.

shmosmom

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 11:57 pm

I don't think it's our job to encourage or discourage, rather though not to withhold because of our own bias. Meaning, if he wants to go, say "okay bye honey, see you soon". If he doesn't want to go, no need to mention it.
If he asks you, turn the question back to him and ask him "what do you think?".
I have that sometimes with my husband's nightly chavrusa. If he sees I may want him to be home that night, he'll ask "do you think I should go today?". I usually play it very nonchalant. They're adults, they can reach the decision on their own. If they ask you about it you can be the sounding board, but not the deciding factor in their decision.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Aug 17 2020, 3:45 am

No, that is not a wife's role to "encourage" this. Davening is between man and god.
Let him work it out between himself and god and his feelings.
I put encourage in quotations because it can start off as enciuraging but end in him resenting you and resenting davening if he is only doing it because you "encouraged" him.

malki2

Mon, Aug 17 2020, 6:54 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No, you should not. Your husband is correct to have this sensitivity towards Davening and you should be proud of him for it. I heard a great line in the name of a big Rov regarding the outside Minyanim: It may be BeTzibbur, but it is not really Tefila. Some men just don’t feel it when they are out in the open wearing their mask and are standing 20 feet from the nearest person. They just prefer to wait until things will be the way they once were.

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, Aug 17 2020, 7:36 am

malki2 wrote:

My husband is currently davening at home at I was pretty upset about it. This actually made me feel better. He really just doesn't want to daven with a mask on in some cubicle minyan.

#Happymom

Mon, Aug 17 2020, 7:47 am

Something really important that has helped me a lot,
It is not our job to be our husbands mashgiach. Period.
After 120, all we'll be asked is if we looked after our husbands gashmious, food, clothes etc, and our own ruchniyous.

malki2

Mon, Aug 17 2020, 7:54 am

#Happymom wrote:

Agree, but only partially. It’s definitely our jobs to encourage and quietly influence our husbands to do better spiritually. Without hen-pecking of course. But to say that we only have responsibility for gashmiyus is not correct. Look at the wife of On Ben Pelet.

#Happymom

Mon, Aug 17 2020, 9:05 am

malki2 wrote:

I hear you, and not sure how to fit in On's wife. But, we are def NOT responsible for our spouse's frumkeit, yiras shamayim.
We can show our happyness when they do the right thing, that encourages them.

I think, On's wife acted in a way that was very clever. She didnt forbid him, she just got him to sleep then prevented korach's men from coming to get her husband. She saved her husband from death and she was credited with building up her home. Chochmas nashim bonsa baisa.
K, im not sure how that fits in with my point☺

BUT, the Rav from my sem always told us, WE ARE NOT OUR SPOUSE'S MASHGIACH.
As did my kallah teacher.
So, I hold by it☺☺

PinkFridge

Mon, Aug 17 2020, 9:36 am

Leave him.
I have heard many rabbanim talk about the adjustment to indoor minyanim, and how people felt that they were davening better at home, etc. They passionately want to bring that back into their minyanim.
But once the minyanim can return to their actual home, it's still best to daven there, and work on getting back whatever one gained from davening at home and outside

There are a lot of factors here. Since he's in a slump, I definitely wouldn't push him, I'd endorse and be mechazek him. But I do hope he has a chevra, someone he can turn to and bring him up Hatzlacha!

amother

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 8:14 am

This makes me feel better. Glad I asked here. He does not have a chevra or Rabbi to go to. Not a good situation. If anyone has any recommendations on who had can talk to. We are RW MO.

malki2

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 8:21 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This makes me feel better. Glad I asked here. He does not have a chevra or Rabbi to go to. Not a good situation. If anyone has any recommendations on who had can talk to. We are RW MO.

It’s probably better if he has a local Rav that he can approach. It would be difficult to establish a relationship with a Rav who lives out of his area.

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:02 am

Let me address your davening.
If you can't look inside the siddur, still daven, even the abridged version (which with kids, I did for years). Rabbi Reisman has a great mashal, about the traveling who would go from village to village repairing timepieces. Sometimes, some timepieces had atrophied beyond repair. The key was to keep winding up the mechanism, even if it did nothing. So do daven. Keep the mechanism working.

Which leads me to another thought, on the words "al levavecha" in Shema. It's not in your heart, it's on. Because sometimes we're not receptive. But we should still learn and bring those words into our lives. Because one day our hearts will crack open. Then all the stuff on our hearts will enter and be in our hearts. Even a small crack works.

One more thought: Rav Hutner speaks about yemei ahava, when we are on with our avodah, everything's sunshine and flowers, and yemei hasina, when we are in ruts. It's a normal cycle. We should know that we have transcended in the past and can do it again.

Hatzlacha!

zaq

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:22 am

#Happymom wrote:

After 120, all we'll be asked is if we looked after our husbands gashmious, food, clothes etc, and our own ruchniyous.

Do you have a source? This is in perfect alignment with my personal philosophy, but it sure would be nice to have a verifiable source.

Also I was never taught that I have to look after my dh food and clothes, etc. If I read my ketubah correctly, it's his responsibility to supply ME with my gashmiyusdik needs such as food, clothing etc.

imasinger

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:43 am

How about this?

"As long as you're not going to shul, could we please all daven together as a family? You, me, kids that are old enough? It would mean so much to me."

#Happymom

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:43 am

zaq wrote:

I learnt that in sem, maybe I could find my notes one day☺

Yes, he did obligate himself to provide for you in the kesubah, but I guess one of a wife's duties is to make sure the husband's clothes get cleaned and there's food for him to eat. Not sure if there is a source for that. I learnt this in kallah classes, I guess I could quote my teacher...

keym

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:43 am

zaq wrote:

I don't have an exact source.
But maybe the Rambam who says that the husband is responsible for bringing home the raw materials (wool, flax, grain) and the wife is responsible for the final product for the whole family. (Clothing, bread, etc)

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 10:11 am

In a marriage, each side needs to really care for each other.
When it comes to the other's spirituality, the most caring way is not to be their mashgiach but to be as supportive, endorsing, facilitating as possible.