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amother
Aqua
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 Sun, Sep 06 2020, 9:03 pm
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Send kids to college and they can get married after they worked and saved 3-4 years, it already makes a huge difference if you have 6 kids and they do this
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DVOM
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Sun, Sep 06 2020, 11:11 pm
| naturalmom5 wrote: | Bingo
I have a tiny apartment. They have a huge house on an acre. 8 children, 4 married with numerous grandchildren.
A few years back, I said I just had hip replacement surgery I cant come.
They set up a room with an attendant  |
How lovely! May you always feel so valued and supported by your friends!!
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LittleDucky
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Mon, Sep 07 2020, 3:31 am
| amother [ Vermilion ] wrote: | Love your post. Love it.
You are saying basically that instead of sticking head in sand, recognize frum expenses from the start is what you need to earn to "play". One dollar off 1000 dollars coupon will not improve your rat race.
But what to do if you are already stuck in quicksand? |
So you are stuck with your current circumstances. For now only. Take a good hard look at the full picture. What do you spend on? What is fixed, what can be decreased/flexible? What is mandatory and how much of it is mandatory? What is not literally required?
Then you see how much is required for those mandatory fixed needs. Then look at the flexible ones- food is required but how much? Lattes aren't needs but water and filling/nutritious food are. And no, you don't need chicken or meat at every dinner.
What is not mandatory- get rid of. Find a cheaper alternative if possible (get 1 week old magazines from a neighbor!). You don't need bottled water unless you lived in Flint Michigan. But if you must- buy a Brita filter water bottle and refill from the tap! Or get one of those generic "I love camp!" Or other giveaway bottle and fill at home!
Medications you need are mandatory but sometimes shopping around (generics, other pharmacies can have lower copays) can save you money. Companies sometimes have deals on the name brand one, ask your doctor if your med has a copay assistance program. Some have no income limits. Or if there is a less expensive option that will meet your needs.
Housing- you must live somewhere but do you need the 7br 4 bath house (plus office, playroom, pool, eat in gourmet kitchen...) ? I am generalizing here- if you have 10 kids you can't live in a 2BR apartment. But maybe you can live a few blocks over where housing is a bit less? Or move to another frum but smaller city (but take into account what you "lose"- do you have greater taxes, costs for a second car, have to pay lots for special Ed services you got for free in NY? Do you lose your free babysitter by moving away from parents?).
Clothing- do you need it or want it? How many pairs of shoes does your teenager really need? Will her friends stop liking her if she has 4 and not 5 pairs of shoes? Does your preschooler need shabbos shoes? Fancy shabbos outfits? Does the 4 year old need a suit? Yes it is so cute and it's good to teach kavod shabbos- but he will be on the playground and sneakers will do him much better and is safer. Or he will sit on floor playing with trucks in that expensive suit.
Only you can decide what is need vs want. And I don't mean to say that you have to drastically remove everything pleasurable. But expenses have to get down to levels where each day doesn't bring you more into debt. And once income goes up- start to save and add a few things back in as long as you aren't back in debt. And there are lots of free activities and items out there. People give away items all the time- barely used baby gear, toys, books, clothing....
One more thing: learn to coupon. It has saved us so much money over the years. Thousands each year. And not by using 50 cent coupons.ll but by stacking store coupons/sales with manufacturer ones you can get things for severe discounts or almost free. Or free- toothpaste is a classic one that there are deals about once a month or so at one or more national stores to get free toothpaste. Random but true! It is harder now during covid IME as chain stores aren't doing "stackable" deals, manufacturers aren't giving out as many coupons, online shopping makes it harder to use them (paper coupons aren't usually usable online and in the store we tend to just get what we need due to covid risk and leave instead of focusing on which coupon matches what item..). But once this is over and soap, toilet paper, cleaning supplies etc all go back to their normal sale cycle and coupons emerge again- learn how to do this! I don't pay for toothpaste, pay less than 50% on other toiletries, and save a lot at big box grocery stores. I can't decrease the price of a chicken so I work to save on other items.
we have had good time and worse times (may we get to the good times soon again!!) and keeping these things in mind has helped.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Sep 07 2020, 7:55 am
| amother [ Aqua ] wrote: | | Send kids to college and they can get married after they worked and saved 3-4 years, it already makes a huge difference if you have 6 kids and they do this |
In theory. In practice they'll suffer being alone until they're... 25? MORE? I wouldn't wish this on anyone and I adamantly refused. That said, yes, they should start studying and not drop it once married - or start when married, if they're goingto public uni in person and don't feel it
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southernbubby
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Mon, Sep 07 2020, 8:48 am
| LittleDucky wrote: | So you are stuck with your current circumstances. For now only. Take a good hard look at the full picture. What do you spend on? What is fixed, what can be decreased/flexible? What is mandatory and how much of it is mandatory? What is not literally required?
Then you see how much is required for those mandatory fixed needs. Then look at the flexible ones- food is required but how much? Lattes aren't needs but water and filling/nutritious food are. And no, you don't need chicken or meat at every dinner.
What is not mandatory- get rid of. Find a cheaper alternative if possible (get 1 week old magazines from a neighbor!). You don't need bottled water unless you lived in Flint Michigan. But if you must- buy a Brita filter water bottle and refill from the tap! Or get one of those generic "I love camp!" Or other giveaway bottle and fill at home!
Medications you need are mandatory but sometimes shopping around (generics, other pharmacies can have lower copays) can save you money. Companies sometimes have deals on the name brand one, ask your doctor if your med has a copay assistance program. Some have no income limits. Or if there is a less expensive option that will meet your needs.
Housing- you must live somewhere but do you need the 7br 4 bath house (plus office, playroom, pool, eat in gourmet kitchen...) ? I am generalizing here- if you have 10 kids you can't live in a 2BR apartment. But maybe you can live a few blocks over where housing is a bit less? Or move to another frum but smaller city (but take into account what you "lose"- do you have greater taxes, costs for a second car, have to pay lots for special Ed services you got for free in NY? Do you lose your free babysitter by moving away from parents?).
Clothing- do you need it or want it? How many pairs of shoes does your teenager really need? Will her friends stop liking her if she has 4 and not 5 pairs of shoes? Does your preschooler need shabbos shoes? Fancy shabbos outfits? Does the 4 year old need a suit? Yes it is so cute and it's good to teach kavod shabbos- but he will be on the playground and sneakers will do him much better and is safer. Or he will sit on floor playing with trucks in that expensive suit.
Only you can decide what is need vs want. And I don't mean to say that you have to drastically remove everything pleasurable. But expenses have to get down to levels where each day doesn't bring you more into debt. And once income goes up- start to save and add a few things back in as long as you aren't back in debt. And there are lots of free activities and items out there. People give away items all the time- barely used baby gear, toys, books, clothing....
One more thing: learn to coupon. It has saved us so much money over the years. Thousands each year. And not by using 50 cent coupons.ll but by stacking store coupons/sales with manufacturer ones you can get things for severe discounts or almost free. Or free- toothpaste is a classic one that there are deals about once a month or so at one or more national stores to get free toothpaste. Random but true! It is harder now during covid IME as chain stores aren't doing "stackable" deals, manufacturers aren't giving out as many coupons, online shopping makes it harder to use them (paper coupons aren't usually usable online and in the store we tend to just get what we need due to covid risk and leave instead of focusing on which coupon matches what item..). But once this is over and soap, toilet paper, cleaning supplies etc all go back to their normal sale cycle and coupons emerge again- learn how to do this! I don't pay for toothpaste, pay less than 50% on other toiletries, and save a lot at big box grocery stores. I can't decrease the price of a chicken so I work to save on other items.
we have had good time and worse times (may we get to the good times soon again!!) and keeping these things in mind has helped. |
While I have had some luck with coupons years ago, many independent grocery stores don't accept them. I used to get most of them from the Sunday newspaper but there was a whole science to doing it and many people ended up with more shampoo and toothpaste than they could use before it deteriorated.
What makes the most sense to me is to first look at where money is being wasted. Are we wasting food and utilities?
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LittleDucky
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Mon, Sep 07 2020, 10:43 am
| southernbubby wrote: | While I have had some luck with coupons years ago, many independent grocery stores don't accept them. I used to get most of them from the Sunday newspaper but there was a whole science to doing it and many people ended up with more shampoo and toothpaste than they could use before it deteriorated.
What makes the most sense to me is to first look at where money is being wasted. Are we wasting food and utilities? |
Right, everything within reason. Don't get 25 toothpastes even if they are free. And don't make yourself crazy running after each shampoo deal as it will come around again. But paying 50% off on household basics does help your bottom line. It definitely makes it easier to afford things. I found couponing all year long helped a lot around pesach as I didn't have to buy toothbrushes, toothpaste etc for everyone- I just took them out of my drawer. (Colgate seems to always be on the KLP list). Not buying something at one of the most expensive times of the year helps!
And definitely look at waste, find a way to reuse leftovers, turn lights off when not in use, turn off the water when brushing your teeth... It is just harder to quantify savings there vs "saved $30 at CVS on things I needed..."
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southernbubby
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Mon, Sep 07 2020, 11:15 am
| LittleDucky wrote: | Right, everything within reason. Don't get 25 toothpastes even if they are free. And don't make yourself crazy running after each shampoo deal as it will come around again. But paying 50% off on household basics does help your bottom line. It definitely makes it easier to afford things. I found couponing all year long helped a lot around pesach as I didn't have to buy toothbrushes, toothpaste etc for everyone- I just took them out of my drawer. (Colgate seems to always be on the KLP list). Not buying something at one of the most expensive times of the year helps!
And definitely look at waste, find a way to reuse leftovers, turn lights off when not in use, turn off the water when brushing your teeth... It is just harder to quantify savings there vs "saved $30 at CVS on things I needed..." |
In general, certain products that can be used on Pesach, go on sale right before Thanksgiving. At least it was that way before the pandemic. Following the non Jewish sale cycle can help with Purim, Chanukah, etc but we need to be organized and have enough money to buy ahead.
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amother
Aqua
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Mon, Sep 07 2020, 12:41 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | | In theory. In practice they'll suffer being alone until they're... 25? MORE? I wouldn't wish this on anyone and I adamantly refused. That said, yes, they should start studying and not drop it once married - or start when married, if they're goingto public uni in person and don't feel it |
You prefer they post here on imamother how they are fighting with DH that they can't afford a home, their medication, tuition? That they can't go to the dentist? Hashem can find a match even for those who are 25, it's better than getting married just because everyone is and accepting the first thing that they see.
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naturalmom5
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 1:36 am
| DVOM wrote: | | How lovely! May you always feel so valued and supported by your friends!! |
Amen...thank you
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amother
Amber
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 2:08 am
| amother [ Aqua ] wrote: | | You prefer they post here on imamother how they are fighting with DH that they can't afford a home, their medication, tuition? That they can't go to the dentist? Hashem can find a match even for those who are 25, it's better than getting married just because everyone is and accepting the first thing that they see. |
Im curious were you single over 25 in a world where most are not? Do you have any idea how painful and lonely that is?
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ora_43
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 3:12 am
I think there's no real contradiction between saving $1 here and there on food being helpful, and saving $1 on food here and there not being helpful.
Where it's easy to save a little on food, that's very helpful, because even if it's only a small amount, food tends to be one of the biggest expenses so it adds up quickly. Like, we pretty much only eat chicken on Shabbat, but even so, saving 5 shekels a kilo on chicken ($0.66 a pound) for a year would give me enough money to buy 2 new pairs of shoes. And if I could save a little on shampoo, too, and a little on produce... If with a little extra thought and planning you can save a thousand dollars a year without feeling much of a pinch, why not?
Where it's hard to save on food - because it's not convenient, because it feels like a sacrifice, because you have a million food sensitivities, whatever - it's not helpful. Why go around feeling like you never have anything good in life over a couple hundred dollars a year? Better to spend that energy on doing more work that earns money, or training for a high-paying job, etc.
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ora_43
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 3:18 am
| amother [ Aqua ] wrote: | | You prefer they post here on imamother how they are fighting with DH that they can't afford a home, their medication, tuition? That they can't go to the dentist? Hashem can find a match even for those who are 25, it's better than getting married just because everyone is and accepting the first thing that they see. |
I think if anything it would be halachically better to get married and use birth control. Marriage in itself isn't expensive, it's raising kids that costs money.
I would guess most people wouldn't want to be single until age 25 even if they knew they'd get married at 25. There's the basic human need for companionship to consider. Plus, y'know - s-x drive. It's hard enough not dating as a teenager.
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Ruchel
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 4:46 am
| amother [ Aqua ] wrote: | | You prefer they post here on imamother how they are fighting with DH that they can't afford a home, their medication, tuition? That they can't go to the dentist? Hashem can find a match even for those who are 25, it's better than getting married just because everyone is and accepting the first thing that they see. |
It's not about everyone, hun. It's about a human being alone. Responsed like this as you're 1) anon 2 )putting words in my mouth.
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amother
Aqua
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 9:23 am
| amother [ Amber ] wrote: | | Im curious were you single over 25 in a world where most are not? Do you have any idea how painful and lonely that is? |
I was not, but I had a couple of friends that were. And even though it wasn't a choice of theirs, they got married later because it happened that way, I saw how their lives were easier in that sense, that they had finished their education, were more financially stable while I wasn't. Grass is always greener on the other side..
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amother
Aqua
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 9:29 am
| Ruchel wrote: | | It's not about everyone, hun. It's about a human being alone. Responsed like this as you're 1) anon 2 )putting words in my mouth. |
I apologise if my opinion offended yours. I prefer to stay anon and I hope I didn't sound as if I was attacking your post, not my intention.
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Ruchel
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 9:32 am
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If you're starving better wait... But if you'll have "more stability" I'd chose spouse overf it
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amother
Pumpkin
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 10:17 am
| amother [ Mustard ] wrote: | We could go on and on about what are necessities and what are luxuries and what frum people could cut on.....
My question is, if someone is earning $200,000+ a year, how are they not making it work. Yes, I understand that tuition is non-negotiable in many cases but there are so many other things that are! Move to a cheaper house/apartment, get inexpensive and basic furniture, buy cheaper/lease cheaper cars, buy cheaper clothing or get from a gemach, learn to do basic alterations on your own, make basic food (dry beans/lentils, bread, pasta), skip the expensive extras....
I think what the issue comes down to is either the standard of living or the person themself believes it would be beneath them to scrimp on these things. Personally, I would rather live with just bare bones necessities and have enough money to pay tuition, and have an emergency fund, and put away for my kids.
I skip the dips, magazines, doonas, "jewish" clothing, meat, expensive dairy, along with many other things to make my wishes a reality. And I don't make a six figure salary. What happened to making smart financial decisions to get the results you want? |
Between my husband and myself we earn $200,000. After taxes, health care and 401k/pension, we are left with about $135k
Our mortgage is 36k/year (it's a simple house, not large, 1 bathroom)
Our tuition is 45k/year
Our aftercare costs are $9k
Our summer camp costs (necessary for working full time) is 10k
Car insurance, life insurance is around 3k
Our food bill is 12k - we have food allergy issues and cannot get it lower
Utilities (electric, water, internet, phone etc) - 5k
Clothing for all of us - roughly 1k per year
transportation costs (gas/tolls/car repair/public transportation)4k
Medical costs (copays, therapy not covered etc) 5k
That's $130,000 and I didn't include maaser. We have no car payments, my fanciest stroller was a hand me down city mini and I don't buy any dips. We have no cleaning help. I don't buy Jewish clothing or things like that.
At the end of the day, tuition is really the killer. It is significantly more than my mortgage on my modest home. Before we bought our home, we researched rent in our area. A 2 bedroom apartment was close to the same cost as our mortgage plus tax deduction. The difference is really in utilities because we can do most of our home repairs ourselves. We can make it, but it is very difficult. If I had another child, the costs would put us over the top.
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Chickensoupprof
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 10:27 am
There was a lot of lashon hara going on in my family when I became frum because I would waste all my money on the ''so expensive'' meat and become bankrupt. We eat meat twice a week and get fish from the supermarket fresh when it is at a discount. I make my own bread/challas, so I don't need to drive all the way up to A'dam or Antwerp. Lots of things don't need to have a hechsher here in the NL like honey is almost everywhere kosher, flour, some kind of candy or cookies, tinned/canned/frozen veggies. Potatoes/onions at the farmer, shopping sales for clothing and don't get the heimishe stocking brands as MeMoi, Florence I buy them only when I'm in the UK or Antwerp and wear them only on YT or Shabbos (however if someone wants to send me palm tights I want one really badly because I have ordered this dress for YT and it would look fab with seamed thick stockings)
I don't need the latest sheitel trend, often I'm going out only in a tichel or snood.
My husband loves 2nd hand stores, we only travel by train or bike and don't own a car. I guess it's byside scholing and so on also a lot of peer pressure you should have this babycarriage and this kind of clothing and all matches and it's all about how you look. And I think honestly it's the yetzer haro, it's about our neshamos and our neshamos don't need to have expensive suits, dresses and everything.
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naturalmom5
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 10:34 am
| Ruchel wrote: | | If you're starving better wait... But if you'll have "more stability" I'd chose spouse overf it |
I wouldnt
I got married at 31 after meeting 100+ men and 2 broken engagements.
It was lonely and very sad at times, especially when all my friends were married and I had no sisters
However, the dire poverty of the first few years kf marriage was much much worse
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amother
Aubergine
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Thu, Sep 10 2020, 11:17 am
| naturalmom5 wrote: | I wouldnt
I got married at 31 after meeting 100+ men and 2 broken engagements.
It was lonely and very sad at times, especially when all my friends were married and I had no sisters
However, the dire poverty of the first few years kf marriage was much much worse |
What's your point? Supposedly if you got married at 31 you should have all your finances in order.
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