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amother
Slategray


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 5:43 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
It is not a new invention at all, it was like this 30 years ago when I went to school. And it's definitely not what chassidishkeit is about, it's just part of it. It's one of the many minhagim that are the make up of Chassidish. No one is defining anyone's spiritually based on a 6 year old hosiery. But if a chassidish mom puts socks on her 6 year old, then it's usually not the only thing they're lax about.


So if that's the case, lets start this thread again. Let's compare and contrast the two schools without mentioning clothing or any sort of attire. What's the contextual difference between the two schools that would have a chassidishe parent choose between the two?
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 5:49 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
I know three people in BDY. All three are not ex chasiddish. They all three are frum, makpid on tznius in every way and are super ehrlich, emesdig and always searching to grow. It’s sad that some people gave this school a name for having the “leftover garbage” because there are very fine people there. It’s the only Chasidish school I would consider for my own daughter if the non Chasidish schools won’t accept her.

I also know wonderful chassidish erlich families who send there, yet they have this name. I think because they are a mix and easily accept so automatically the “runaways” landed there too.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 5:54 pm
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
It was invented 30 years ago. Chassidishkeit has been around for many more years than that. So it is something new and not any old traditional minhag.

And re the bolded - it's precisely this judgmental attitude that pushes people away. Putting on knee socks on a little girl which is halachically sound in every which way doesn't make a person lax in other areas. That mother just doesn't have a feel towards this minhag.


No, it doesn't. But in the chassidish world this is usually the case. A very frum family doesn't put socks on a 6 year old. Chassidish that put socks on a 6 year old usually (not always but usually) comes along with the home not being in line with the hashkafa that chassidish schools are looking for.
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thankuhashem




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 6:35 pm
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
So if that's the case, lets start this thread again. Let's compare and contrast the two schools without mentioning clothing or any sort of attire. What's the contextual difference between the two schools that would have a chassidishe parent choose between the two?


Cant compare yet! Need time to see what Munkatch will be....

Only things that can be compared as of now are the written rules.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 6:36 pm
thankuhashem wrote:
Cant compare yet! Need time to see what Munkatch will be....

Only things that can be compared as of now are the written rules.


And people its run by. Bdy is established school run by a rav. Munkatch was established by a few parents and cheider administrators run by people they hired
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 7:35 pm
Amother fuchsia, yes this is a sad thread. You’re claiming that any chassidish person who puts socks on their 6 yr old is lax in other areas and has a different hashkafa - what are you doing on the internet? Rebbes and schools don’t allow it.
There are many different sects within the chassidish world with many different minhagim. Open your eyes!
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 8:18 pm
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
Amother fuchsia, yes this is a sad thread. You’re claiming that any chassidish person who puts socks on their 6 yr old is lax in other areas and has a different hashkafa - what are you doing on the internet? Rebbes and schools don’t allow it.
There are many different sects within the chassidish world with many different minhagim. Open your eyes!


I didn't say any chassidish, I said usually. Yes there are many sects of chassidish but most don't put big girls in knee socks. A typical chassidish person that has 6 year old's in socks, it's usually not just the socks. My eyes are open wide, there really aren't many chassidus that allow 6 year olds in socks. If it would be accepted by chassidim, schools would allow it. If no schools allow it, it should say something. If someone wants to send to a school that does not allow older girls in socks but their older girls wear socks, it means that their hashkafa is not in line with what the school is looking for.
Btw, our school doesn't have internet rules for parents.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 8:32 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
I didn't say any chassidish, I said usually. Yes there are many sects of chassidish but most don't put big girls in knee socks. A typical chassidish person that has 6 year old's in socks, it's usually not just the socks. My eyes are open wide, there really aren't many chassidus that allow 6 year olds in socks. If it would be accepted by chassidim, schools would allow it. If no schools allow it, it should say something. If someone wants to send to a school that does not allow older girls in socks but their older girls wear socks, it means that their hashkafa is not in line with what the school is looking for.
Btw, our school doesn't have internet rules for parents.

I agree with all you wrote. It’s not about whether socks are right or wrong it’s just a sign of different hashkafos than the typical chasidish people in monsey. So it’s a statement more than anything.
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 8:41 pm
This is what the bal shem tov meant when he founded chassidus? All this judgement? That the more schools reject and are "picky" the better it is?

FOR SHAME!

My girls go to a community school. Some mothers wear leggings with short skirts, others don't. Some have tv's, others dont. Some eat chalav Yisrael, others dont.

And you know what? When my daughters are offered m&m's they politely decline. They know they put on tights or skirts that cover their knees at bas mitzva even though others don't. You know why? Because we give them chinuch. And we teach them our derech without being judgemental about others.

If you look down at other families for putting on knee Socks on SIX year olds, what are you teaching your kids? How do you think they will react when they see someone doing something "different " than them?

Sorry for this rant. I am so bothered by this thread.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 8:47 pm
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
This is what the bal shem tov meant when he founded chassidus? All this judgement? That the more schools reject and are "picky" the better it is?

FOR SHAME!

My girls go to a community school. Some mothers wear leggings with short skirts, others don't. Some have tv's, others dont. Some eat chalav Yisrael, others dont.

And you know what? When my daughters are offered m&m's they politely decline. They know they put on tights or skirts that cover their knees at bas mitzva even though others don't. You know why? Because we give them chinuch. And we teach them our derech without being judgemental about others.

If you look down at other families for putting on knee Socks on SIX year olds, what are you teaching your kids? How do you think they will react when they see someone doing something "different " than them?

Sorry for this rant. I am so bothered by this thread.


And your point is??? This thread is discussing chassidish schools. Chassidish sheltered kids will not survive in the school you described. Why should a chassidish girl go to school with girls that don't dress tzenuis? It doesn't even make sense. No one is looking down at families that put socks on 6 year old's, but we need to send to schools where are kids belong and that are in line with our hashkafa. The chassidish minhag is not to wear socks over 3, there's nothing wrong with chassidish schools having this rule. It doesn’t mean they look down on people that put socks on 6 year old's, it's just different hashkafa.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 8:51 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
And your point is??? This thread is discussing chassidish schools. Chassidish sheltered kids will not survive in the school you described. Why should a chassidish girl go to school with girls that don't dress tzenuis? It doesn't even make sense. No one is looking down at families that put socks on 6 year old's, but we need to send to schools where are kids belong and that are in line with our hashkafa. The chassidish minhag is not to wear socks over 3, there's nothing wrong with chassidish schools having this rule. It doesn’t mean they look down on people that put socks on 6 year old's, it's just different hashkafa.

Agree again and I don’t look down at people who don’t have these hashkafos. Not one bit. it’s still not the parent body my DD or I would be comfortable with in a school. There’s something about your school being in line with your hashkafos. It would be awkward and uncomfortable for my 6 YO DD to wear tights if most of her classmates wear socks. Why would I deliberately put her into that situation?
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:00 pm
Chassidish minhag is socks at three? Since when?
Its an invention of the past maybe 10 or 20 years ago.

I have a chassidish cousin who went to very chassidish school 40 years ago and nursery was coed. And til 3 or older all wore pants. So these schools put more and more tznius rules until it came to a 3 year old wearing tights. Dont worry, your bubby didn't wear tights at 3.

Im not telling you to send to a community school. But why do you care if a different child wears socks at 3 and yours don't? How does it affect your yiddishkeit?

I really want to understand
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:03 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
And your point is??? This thread is discussing chassidish schools. Chassidish sheltered kids will not survive in the school you described. Why should a chassidish girl go to school with girls that don't dress tzenuis? It doesn't even make sense. No one is looking down at families that put socks on 6 year old's, but we need to send to schools where are kids belong and that are in line with our hashkafa. The chassidish minhag is not to wear socks over 3, there's nothing wrong with chassidish schools having this rule. It doesn’t mean they look down on people that put socks on 6 year old's, it's just different hashkafa.


Chassidish rebbish girls went to Bais Yakov together with girls from non religious homes. And then these girls raised beautiful Torah families because they were influenced by these Ehrlich girls.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:04 pm
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
Chassidish minhag is socks at three? Since when?
Its an invention of the past maybe 10 or 20 years ago.

I have a chassidish cousin who went to very chassidish school 40 years ago and nursery was coed. And til 3 or older all wore pants. So these schools put more and more tznius rules until it came to a 3 year old wearing tights. Dont worry, your bubby didn't wear tights at 3.

Im not telling you to send to a community school. But why do you care if a different child wears socks at 3 and yours don't? How does it affect your yiddishkeit?

I really want to understand


It's absolutely not an invention from 10-20 years ago. I went to pre school 30 years ago and we had to wear tights. There's just more awareness now. I don't care if other kids wear socks above 3. I didn't say it affects my Yiddishkeit. It just makes sense to send to a school that's in line with your hashkafa.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:04 pm
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
Chassidish minhag is socks at three? Since when?
Its an invention of the past maybe 10 or 20 years ago.

I have a chassidish cousin who went to very chassidish school 40 years ago and nursery was coed. And til 3 or older all wore pants. So these schools put more and more tznius rules until it came to a 3 year old wearing tights. Dont worry, your bubby didn't wear tights at 3.

Im not telling you to send to a community school. But why do you care if a different child wears socks at 3 and yours don't? How does it affect your yiddishkeit?

I really want to understand

Read my post above. None of us care what others do but we choose to make our kids comfortable in their school setting by placing them in schools with hashkafos similar to our own. It’s that simple.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:05 pm
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
Chassidish rebbish girls went to Bais Yakov together with girls from non religious homes. And then these girls raised beautiful Torah families because they were influenced by these Ehrlich girls.


You cannot compare that times to todays days. If chassidish or even yeshivish girls today would go to school with non religious girls, they'd probably become non religious as well. The world is way more tempting now, kids are exposed to more and we need to shelter our kids.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:11 pm
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
Chassidish rebbish girls went to Bais Yakov together with girls from non religious homes. And then these girls raised beautiful Torah families because they were influenced by these Ehrlich girls.

That’s true. There were less schools and everyone went to the one school available. The chinuch at home was super strong and kids were proud to be whoever they are. These days with the huge variety of schools people choose the one that fits their hashkafos best and rely a lot on the school’s chinuch to complement theres.
Which method was better? I like the idea that things weren’t so neatly boxed back then. I really do. But I can’t see it working now. We are a weak generation. I’m trying to picture telling my daughter that even if her entire class wears socks she needs to wear tights, and I can’t see her being happy and proud of it. It shows weakness on my part. But I’m not here to boast how amazingly strong I am. Thankfully the environment she’s with all day will help impart the hashkafos I hold dear.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Sep 10 2020, 12:12 am
Delete
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Thu, Sep 10 2020, 3:44 am
amother [ Cerise ] wrote:
That’s true. There were less schools and everyone went to the one school available. The chinuch at home was super strong and kids were proud to be whoever they are. These days with the huge variety of schools people choose the one that fits their hashkafos best and rely a lot on the school’s chinuch to complement theres.
Which method was better? I like the idea that things weren’t so neatly boxed back then. I really do. But I can’t see it working now. We are a weak generation. I’m trying to picture telling my daughter that even if her entire class wears socks she needs to wear tights, and I can’t see her being happy and proud of it. It shows weakness on my part. But I’m not here to boast how amazingly strong I am. Thankfully the environment she’s with all day will help impart the hashkafos I hold dear.


I hear you
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amother
Linen


 

Post Thu, Sep 10 2020, 5:08 am
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
Chassidish rebbish girls went to Bais Yakov together with girls from non religious homes. And then these girls raised beautiful Torah families because they were influenced by these Ehrlich girls.


Um, um, um! Which time period are you referring to?
For many, many, many years, most girls went to public school.
When Bais Yaakov opened, a select few girls from extremely committed homes switched to Bais Yaakov.
If a non-frum girl was in BY, it was an anomaly. (This is not necessarily true for boys yeshivos: That worked very differently.)
By the time kiruv was a thing, and the few non-frum children were persuaded to join Bais Yaakov, there were already a larger selection of schools that rebbish girls most likely went to.
Please, know your history.
Cerise, I love your posts.
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