A Stupid, Bad Interaction with Principal (vent)

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 11:10 am

A vent...

DH dropped off our two boys at Yeshiva today. It was the little ones first day, whereas the older one started last week. As he was dropping them off, the little one began to cry, as expected for someone his age (he’s 4). While trying to calm him down, with all the ruckus going around from other parents, students, and teachers running around, the Principal (In the middle of a conversation with a Rebbe) throws a comment to my husband. “I don’t like your older DS’s haircut. It’s too layered. Change it.” DH gets thrown off guard and becomes defensive, replying, “I like it just the way it is.” Now he notices people are watching. Our little one still crying. The principal responds, “it’s a one way argument” and the Rebbe that the principal was talking to quietly says, “well, what do you expect, look at the fathers haircut...”
I don’t remember the rest of the back and forth, but that was essentially it. My DH came home livid.

A little context... the Yeshiva is officially a “yeshivish” school, but the parent body is more modern. Everyone is professional, no kollel families, all women dress stylish and with long wigs. It’s a mix of ashkenaz, sedardi and Israelis. We like the yeshiva. It is a warm place that has good values. However, this particular principal has always played the role of “bad cop”. If a mom comes in with leggings under her skirt, he is the one to give her a phone call. If a boy is wearing the wrong kind of shoes, he will be the one to call the parents. We understand that it is his job. We understand the reason as to why he needs to do it. What bothered DH is the way it was done. Publicly and with a “holier than thou” attitude. This has brought back traumatizing experiences DH has gone through as a kid while learning at his extremely right wing Yeshivah where exterior was a heavy focus. He would get in trouble if his glasses were deemed “too modern”.

We are well liked and good parents in the school. We don’t cause trouble. We pay a full tuition on time. We have been sending there for years without any issues. Our kids are well behaved, well liked, and a positive addition to a classroom. Just yesterday, my older DS was telling me about a new boy who was shy and no one was playing with him. DS said he felt sorry for him and he understood how he must be feeling. So he approached him at recess and asked if he would like to play tag with him. the boy said yes and they played the whole time. DS said how he felt happy now that the new boy sees that someone cares for him.
These are my kids. Sweet and kind and a positive addition to any school. And now Mr. Bad Cop wants to publicly make comments about his “too layered” haircut? Who the heck cares?!?! And if it’s THAT big of a deal, be a mentch and CALL DH or pull him to the side quietly.

Broken Heart

(Anonymous in case I vent to someone IRL about this)

little neshamala

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 11:34 am

Oh my gosh. The way that was handled....I'd be livid too

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 11:34 am

Your Dh was in the wrong here- said as a parent and a staff member at a school.

It’s not great that the principal said something publicly, but for dh to answer him back was undermining his authority and plain chutzpah. A bad example for your kid and making too big an issue.

He should have said something like k I’ll keep it in mind, chances are no one would mention it again.

Chayalle

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 11:39 am

the principal should not have said that publicly
your DH should not have answered him back
the Rebbe was definitely out of line saying that in front of kids

Oy.

Odelyah

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 11:42 am

wow. If that's how the principal and rebbeim act I would not want my children in that school. (and for those who say the husband shouldn't have answered the principal back, that does not justify the behavior of the principal and rebbe Sad

)

ShishKabob

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 11:47 am

Odelyah wrote:

)

I'm going to be very cynical here. Sorry.
I think you are going to be left schoolless.

This is not saying that all across the board are like that. But the ones on top usually have very high egos and the ones on top are not necessarily the ones that we should look up to for inspiration or for setting an example. If you feel a need to hug me, please do so. Smile

But I'm pretty much the type to tell my kids that if they go to a certain school/yeshiva with certain rules, we have to follow them whether we agree or not, whether we like it or not.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 11:49 am

OP, my jaw literally dropped when I read what that principal said! Surprised

I don't think what your DH said was so bad. He said he liked the haircut. So what? Did that justify a direct personal attack, and in front of his sons and the whole school?

If that was the end of the discussion, then please ask your DH for a bracha. To be embarrassed like that in public is horrible, and to try and restrain yourself from taking the bait takes incredible middos.

The next time you are in a position where you are supposed to give the principal a "gift", give him a copy of Chofetz Chaim. He needs it!

groovy1224

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 11:49 am

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

What???

OP did not say her son's haircut violated school rules. The principal simply said he didn't like it. What is the correct response to that exactly? Sir Yes Sir? This is how it is now? Haircuts have to to be to the principal's taste?? (Again, he did NOT say that the haircut was in violation of school rules, which would be a different story)

Her DH was already in a vulnerable position, comforting a young child on his first day. Shame on this principal and shame on this "rebbi" though it sounds like he hardly deserves the title. Muttering under his breath to the parent's face? In front of his child?

That is disgusting behavior and I definitely think OP should make a stink about it.

little neshamala

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:00 pm

And isn't it lashon hara for the Rebi to make that comment to the principal?

avrahamama

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:02 pm

Odelyah wrote:

)

This. It was abrupt. Cruel. Disenfranchising. It was 💯 poor show for a principal. Especially the "one way conversation".

And he didn't ask about the crying child? Nothing?

I'm not even concerned about your husband's reaction right now. I'm too distraught by how this principal and rebbe spoke to a parent. The first week of school in Elul.

I'm actually sad for you and your children ... And even that principal that seems to have forgotten how even be mechanech himself.

avrahamama

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:05 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

But I'm pretty much the type to tell my kids that if they go to a certain school/yeshiva with certain rules, we have to follow them whether we agree or not, whether we like it or not.

Even if someone breaks the rules. They aren't spoken to in that fashion.

A child who breaks the rules might be proven right about the whole institution/establishement if they are spoken to like that. Actually even an adult.

ShishKabob

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:07 pm

avrahamama wrote:

I totally agree with you.

Chayalle

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:08 pm

I think that if your kids are overall happy in the school, and they have good role models (besides for the principal and that Rebbe), it's not necessarily worth making a big deal about it. But agree, they were out of line there.

I think if I were you I'd probably do nothing in the short run and wait and see if they just forget about it.

Not every wrong can be righted, or is worth trying to right.

avrahamama

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:11 pm

Chayalle wrote:

True

amother

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:14 pm

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

Thank you for your input.

amother

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:18 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

OP, my jaw literally dropped when I read what that principal said! Surprised

deleted

Odelyah

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:19 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

But I'm pretty much the type to tell my kids that if they go to a certain school/yeshiva with certain rules, we have to follow them whether we agree or not, whether we like it or not.

I generally agree with that too, especially if you live somewhere with a selection of schools. But whether or not OP's school spells out haircut guidelines, and whether or not her son's hair violated them, it does not justify the principal and rebbe's horrifying behavior. If this was typical of ALL the school options where I lived, I would not want to live in that place. It is exactly this sort of cynicism that comes from having such poor role models that causes many sensitive children to eventually go off the derech r"l. (or at least to get turned off to learning Torah Sad

)

BH Yom Yom

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:20 pm

Sounds like the menahel and the rebbi could use some chinuch themselves. And it sounds like they did a great job of alienating your DH. I’m so sorry he went through that. First week of school and that’s how the principal greets the parent of a crying child? What happened to a simple “good morning” or “hi, how are you?”

Behavior like that of the rebbi and menahel is nauseating at best and does nothing to inspire ahavas hatorah. As long as there’s no violation of school rules, who flipping CARES about the haircut, or the glasses, or the sneakers?! These are not bigdei kehunah we are talking about. Do we really think that after 120 Hashem is going to make an issue of it?

Vent over. Hugs OP. I would be furious.

Edited for typo.

Last edited by BH Yom Yom on Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Bronze

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:20 pm

BTDT, willing to pass on the tee shirt. Except in my case, the comment was made to my son, not to my husband, and was made in front of several of his friends.

I would check the dress code to see if it refers specifically to hair styles. If not, have your DH call the school at a calm time (not the first few days) to discuss it with the principal. (I say DH because it started with him, not because I don't think you're capable.) Tell him you've checked the dress code, and you think that your son is in compliance, but if he's not, could the principal point out where the hair style rules are. Then ask then any dress code communications be made in private, as it is a private matter.

amother

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:23 pm

groovy1224 wrote:

Thank you. We were not violating school rules. But I guess rules change with time when new styles come in... hopefully they will include it in next years guidebook so that no one else needs to get harassed.

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