Jewish school tuition inflation as bad as US colleges?

amother

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 6:22 pm

It's well known in the secular world that there's massive US college tuition inflation (and also health care cost inflation) -- that far exceeds general inflation, e.g., https://thumbor.forbes.com/thu.....6.jpg

Has Jewish school tuition grown over the years at rates far exceeding inflation, in a similar manner to (secular) college tuition?

amother

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 6:43 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

I'd love to see the numbers. You do need to consider that many schools have far more bells and whistles than they did a generation ago.

What kind of bells and whistles? Things necessary or even beneficial to the kids, or just extra "fat" that should be trimmed? Are there more "administrators" and bureaucrats sitting in offices not even teaching students that need to be paid? (Don't know. Went to public schools growing up, and don't yet have school-age kids.)

amother

Amber

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 7:49 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Both.

When I went to day school in the 70s and 80s, we didn't have a resource room or programming for gifted children.

There was no school nurse - either the office lady gave you aspirin or she let you call your parents.

There was a part-time guidance counselor, but that was it for psychological/social/emotional support.

It goes without saying that we had no smartboards, and as far as I know, the textbooks were the same for twenty years.

There was far less administrative staff, but there was also a lot less paperwork for them to deal with, and expectations were lower. Parents didn't generally complain to the administration if their kids came home with B's on a report card. Now there's a lot more hand holding.

The gym was the lunchroom. Equipment was minimal.

When we went on class trips, we took public transportation. Renting a bus was too expensive.

Israel guidance for high school seniors didn't exist.

I won't even describe the bathrooms.

I'm glad things have changed.

We can do without the smartphones and fancy gym equipment, and maybe there's some bloat in the administration, but the other services have made school a much better place than it used to be.

Should we offer a no-frills option for parents who don't want the fancy package? That's a fair question. But I know why my kids' tuition was about 5 times as much as mine, and honestly, I think it was worth every penny.

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 8:02 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

All of this is just details. The core of the issue is we now expect our entire society to be able to afford two mortgage style expenses, one for the house, one for tuition, while simultaneously limiting their parnossoh potentials and encouraging large families.

Once we make sense of that, the other details can be worked about.

amother

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 8:11 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

To be fair, this isn't really an "entire society" thing -- it's more of an orthodox Jewish thing. We're "forced" to live in particular neighborhoods that are expensive, and we're "forced" to pay for private schools (even though we're already "paying" for the public schools with our tax dollars).

We made a choice to become observant, and nobody ever told us it would be cheap! It just seems like everyone is either totally struggling or has family money.

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 8:21 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

By entire society, I was referring to the orthodox Jewish society. So I agree with you.

And precisely, the setup of our community doesn't really allow for middle class. Either you have good money, or you're struggling.

amother

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 8:47 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

What can possibly be done to meaningfully change the cost structure? We can't count on the government to "subsidize" private school tuition (vouchers, rebates on cost of public schools, etc.). How can a family not have to pay $15K/kid/yr for schooling?

Why don't more people move to Israel, where at least you get an essentially free K-12 education (and dirt-cheap college education) for your kids? Particularly more MO / non-haredi families who want their kids to get good secular college/graduate educations and have their kids go into respected secular professions? Aliyah is a major decision, but I'm surprised more struggling families don't make the move.

amother

Green

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 8:56 pm

Tbh I don't understand why there isn't a movement to make public school work for our community. Our taxes support them and many do provide a good secular education that could be supplemented by a more substantial after school Jewish program. As far as concerns about outside influences, the population of kids in the school is based on area demographics! If many in these larger Jewish communities sent their kids to public schools, that's who would be there for your kids to befriend. There would be opportunities for learning about others' cultures too.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 9:01 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Have you seen what they teach in public schools? My brother went to one because the local yeshivas weren't a fit for him. I can tell you, it's not pretty. I wouldn't send my kid to public school even if I weren't Jewish. You have no control over who the teachers are, what is taught or what goes on in the classroom. At least as a yeshiva tuition-paying parent I have say in what and how and who is teaching my kids. Especially in the current age, I always think about how if I weren't sending my kids to yeshiva, I'd be sending them to Catholic school just to get away from public school.

amother

White

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 9:04 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

I was a public school teacher and did not find issues with what was taught. The issue is more the kids parties on shabbos, non kosher food etc. But if a lot of frum people would send together that would probably be easier

amother

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 9:07 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Exactly. I don't get why this isn't even an option. I feel like it's blasphemy to even mention it in even our circles (MO / JPF). We know one family that switched their kids to public school after a certain grade, supplemented by private Jewish tutoring; a few think it's smart and admire their chutzpah, but most seem to think it's a terrible idea.

Having gone to public schools ourselves, I'm still not sold that it's a good idea. Even in an UMC area, there's still going to be plenty of s*x, drugs, alcohol, etc. at a public HS. There's also the PC brainwashing propaganda that's going to become worse and worse in public schools. Nevertheless, we should be discussing the option of public schools.

amother

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 9:27 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

I was a public school teacher and did not find issues with what was taught.

Keyword is *was*. The dreck being taught now -- and what is going to be taught even more with even prevalence in the near future -- is probably wasn't even taught much, if at all, even 5-10 years ago.

Cpg

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 10:13 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

I went to public school and my sister's kids are in public school right now. I worked in the frum school in that area and can confidently say that I had a much better secular education than the kids in that school, and so do my sister's kids right now (she still lives there, I do not).

I've also worked in public schools that were absolutely abysmal, and my daughter went to a frum school last year that had an excellent secular education program. Honestly, every school really is different.

Also, my parents had tremendous influence over my education. Maybe not everywhere, but they definitely made their voices heard and weren't afraid to move me to a different class if they didn't like the teacher.

Cpg

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 10:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I've heard about people starting Hebrew language charter schools. You could probably even get away with gender segregating, and the board would be in control of the curriculum, right? You couldn't do religious stuff but you could eliminate PC stuff.

amother

Green

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 10:31 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Yup I went to public school (BT) and teach in one now! Why should parents have control over the curriculum or who the teachers are? Are they experts in education? One of my pet peeves is when everyone thinks they can teach because they went to school. Just like with yeshivot, there are some excellent public schools and some lousy ones. If we put our collective energy into supporting our local ones instead of stripping their budgets and sending our kids elsewhere, more could be great.

amother

Silver

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 10:32 pm

I will say that elementary and high school is about 2x what my parents paid for me, and college seems to be 2x as well. (My oldest is a college sophomore)
My education was probably the most expensive imaginable, and I am referring to the same schools. I am not saying they are better/worse/worth-it or not, just saying they the inflation between the schools is equivalent.