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"Not Testing"/"Don't Test"
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STMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:41 am
Can someone please explain this to me because it is making my head explode but maybe there's more to the story.
Many posters have commented on here in recent weeks that in their communities people are "not testing" for COVID even if they have symptoms or are being explicitly told by their rabbanim/school hanhala "Don't test".
I am also aware of the recent psak from Israel regarding high school bachurim.
This is the kind of things that gets my blood boiling before I fully understand it (or maybe I do and it really is that infuriating) but since this is very much NOT happening in my community, where everyone is still being careful and responsible, I would appreciate any insight.
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:44 am
STMommy wrote:
Can someone please explain this to me because it is making my head explode but maybe there's more to the story.
Many posters have commented on here in recent weeks that in their communities people are "not testing" for COVID even if they have symptoms or are being explicitly told by their rabbanim/school hanhala "Don't test".
I am also aware of the recent psak from Israel regarding high school bachurim.
This is the kind of things that gets my blood boiling before I fully understand it (or maybe I do and it really is that infuriating) but since this is very much NOT happening in my community, where everyone is still being careful and responsible, I would appreciate any insight.


It enables everyone to be in denial and not controlled by the government. If there's never any evidence of COVID positive test result, then there isn't COVID.

I know it's ridiculous.

It's also kind of like when Putin said some years ago that there aren't gay people in Russia...yeah, when gay people have to hide being gay so that no one can tell...then there's no "evidence" that there are gay people---so there aren't gay people in Russia. "Problem" solved.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:49 am
I think the thought process behind it is that since the tests are not accurate, instead of testing anyone with symptoms should stay home and quarantine.
If there is a false negative they will go to school and infect others because they assume they don't have covid. If there is a false positive they will shut the school down for no reason. If it is a legitimate positive then they can just as well quarantine without the test.
Continuous testing will just cause the students to be quarantining on and off all year for no reason.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:49 am
If I understood the peak about not testing.
It was a specific situation of enclosed pods. 20 boys dorming locked down together. Not going home, not going anywhere for at least 8 weeks. The yeshiva would have their needs delivered to them. The maggid shiur would give the shiur on a porch behind plexiglass.
So what purpose would testing those boys accomplish if they have no or very mild symptoms.
The argument about camp, just in true lockdown style. No coming, no going, no exposure.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:52 am
The don’t test is regarding Yeshiva bochurim who are in pods within capsules in yeshivas for six weeks. They are not leaving and anyone coming in is wearing a mask, keeping their distance and often separated by a clear partition.
Having half the information creates sinah.
You were given part of the story.
We all are not being told enough information, so many are either in fear or indifferent.
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:54 am
I had all symptoms. My Dr told me that I don't need to test, I should just assume I have covid and quarantine for 2 weeks. If you quarantine when feeling sick, there's no need to test.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:55 am
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
If it is a legitimate positive then they can just as well quarantine without the test.

That one person can quarantine without the test. But the people they've been in contact with won't realize that they've been exposed and should quarantine or get tested, too.

The other problem this creates is that it makes the whole process of researching the illness much trickier. It's hard to have any realistic sense of where the virus spreads and why, whether contract tracing works, etc, if people are deliberately avoiding being counted.
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fleetwood




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:57 am
Blessing1 wrote:
I had all symptoms. My Dr told me that I don't need to test, I should just assume I have covid and quarantine for 2 weeks. If you quarantine when feeling sick, there's no need to test.


But if you don't test how does the contact tracing work?
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:59 am
keym wrote:
If I understood the peak about not testing.
It was a specific situation of enclosed pods. 20 boys dorming locked down together. Not going home, not going anywhere for at least 8 weeks. The yeshiva would have their needs delivered to them. The maggid shiur would give the shiur on a porch behind plexiglass.
So what purpose would testing those boys accomplish if they have no or very mild symptoms.
The argument about camp, just in true lockdown style. No coming, no going, no exposure.

Are the capsules arranged so that people who test positive are together, people who are in bidud are together, etc?

If they never test, they don't know who is a possible carrier. I don't understand this system.

Also, do they ever leave the yeshiva grounds? Are they just locked up all together for weeks at a time?
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:00 am
Blessing1 wrote:
I had all symptoms. My Dr told me that I don't need to test, I should just assume I have covid and quarantine for 2 weeks. If you quarantine when feeling sick, there's no need to test.

Is this in Israel, or do yuo live in chu"l?
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:09 am
DrMom wrote:
Are the capsules arranged so that people who test positive are together, people who are in bidud are together, etc?

If they never test, they don't know who is a possible carrier. I don't understand this system.

Also, do they ever leave the yeshiva grounds? Are they just locked up all together for weeks at a time?


They are locked up in the yeshiva grounds.

Before they came back to yeshiva they had to do a Corona test. The ones who tested negative were allowed back. They ones who tested positive had to wait until they got a מכתב שחרור before they were allowed back.

When they went back, they were in capsules. If anyone developed symptoms, the entire capsule went into bidud.

In the yeshivas that strictly enforced it, it worked. The yeshivas that weren't strict have high levels of Corona. In some cases the entire yeshiva has been turned into an isolation zone. In others they are belatedly trying to weed out the positive ones and send them to hotels.

In practice, a lot of yeshivas do seem to be testing. I don't think pikud ha'oref gave them a choice if they wanted to stay open.


Last edited by Elfrida on Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:09 am
DrMom wrote:
Are the capsules arranged so that people who test positive are together, people who are in bidud are together, etc?

If they never test, they don't know who is a possible carrier. I don't understand this system.

Also, do they ever leave the yeshiva grounds? Are they just locked up all together for weeks at a time?


The premise is arranged that 20-25 boys test negative and enter a capsule on Rosh Chodesh Ellul until yk. So 40 days- 5-6 weeks. The capsule includes an out door area. None of these 25 boys may leave the capsule area. They eat, play, learn, clean, laundry, daven, etc.
(18-22 year olds). They get food and essential deliveries left by the gate. Garbage, they mask and gloves up, double bag the trash and put it in the receptacle out of the gate.
3-4 times a week, the Rebbi comes and gives a shiur outdoors on the porch with a face shield, with the boys gathered in the room off the porch.
That's called true pod quarantining.
If a boy displays mild symptoms, the whole pod is quarantining anyways so what purpose does testing serve?
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:10 am
DrMom wrote:
Is this in Israel, or do yuo live in chu"l?


In NY.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:18 am
We now have a bigger issue; college students who test positive and have symptoms are being sent home to infect their families and communities.
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amother
White


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:22 am
My doctor told me not to test my children.

If my child is sick. Keep them home. Get myself tested and then quarantine my own family based on my test.

This is for a few reasons

1. To keep the child's class from being shutdown for 2 weeks.

2. Because a person can test positive with inactive cells for up to 3 months. And if that happens my child can be out of school for 3 months GD forbid.

So yes test. But test the person that is least likely to creat longer term fallout issues.
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Tzippy323




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:22 am
Just plain idiotic. I was told, by a Frum medical professional, DO NOT TEST! If we test, the results are reported and yeshivas and Bais Yaakovs will have to quarantine, shut their doors for a period of time, or c”vsh close down for most of the year. So a sick child, with symptoms but no conclusive diagnosis, is sent back to school with a “cold”. Now, that whole class, plus the teacher/rebbe/morah has been exposed. But by all means, don’t ask don’t tell. And if others get sick, or bring it home to at risk parents and grandparents and siblings and those with compromised immune systems, well, it is all in HaShem’s hands. I though it was our obligation to take care of our guf. Didn’t we learn that somewhere?

Last edited by Tzippy323 on Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:23 am
fleetwood wrote:
But if you don't test how does the contact tracing work?


“We” don’t want contact tracing to work.
We don’t want them closing our schools, Shuls,
or chas vshalom, chas vshalom, poo poo our wedding halls.
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jewishmom6




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:25 am
Blessing1 wrote:
I had all symptoms. My Dr told me that I don't need to test, I should just assume I have covid and quarantine for 2 weeks. If you quarantine when feeling sick, there's no need to test.


Let's say if you had strep. Why put yourself through quarantine if it's not even covid.
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:27 am
Tzippy323 wrote:
Just plain idiotic. I was told, by a Frum medical professional, DO NOT TEST! If we test, the results are reported and yeshivas and Bais Yaakovs will have to quarantine, shut their doors for a period of time, or c”vsh close down for most of the year. So a sick child, with symptoms but no conclusive diagnosis, is sent back to school with a “cold”. Now, that whole class, plus the teacher/rebbe/morah has been exposed. But by all means, don’t ask don’t tell. And if others get sick, or bring it home to at risk parents and grandparents and siblings and those with compromised immune systems, well, it is all in HaShem’s hands. I though it was our obligation to take care of our guf. Didn’t we learn that somewhere?


I think its because there are too many faulty tests.
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:27 am
Tzippy323 wrote:
Just plain idiotic. I was told, by a Frum medical professional, DO NOT TEST! If we test, the results are reported and yeshivas and Bais Yaakovs will have to quarantine, shut their doors for a period of time, or c”vsh close down for most of the year. So a sick child, with symptoms but no conclusive diagnosis, is sent back to school with a “cold”. Now, that whole class, plus the teacher/rebbe/morah has been exposed. But by all means, don’t ask don’t tell. And if others get sick, or bring it home to at risk parents and grandparents and siblings and those with compromised immune systems, well, it is all in HaShem’s hands. I though it was our obligation to take care of our guf. Didn’t we learn that somewhere?


This is not true. Our school and I'm sure many other schools are very strict with sick kids this year. Any symptom of illness must stay home and quarantine. If a sick child is sent to school they immediately get put in isolation till someone picks them up.
DD's classmate didn't start school yet because she's quarantined because of a cold. There's a school in my community where several classes were shut down because a kid was sick. I heard it happened in Lakewood as well.
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