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Do elderly people think schools should be closed?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 9:44 am
I have a question. I keep reading in corona threads how everything should stay closed because of the elderly and the immuno compromised. The things is, every single elderly person I know thinks school should absolutely be open full time for in person instruction. Obviously this is just the people I know, that is why I am posting here, to hear other people's perspectives. From the elderly people I know, I have found that there are basically 2 categories:
1. Those who do not care anymore about corona, are out and about, visiting with grandchildren etc. They absolutely could not handle the loneliness and isolation and would rather take the risk of corona than live that way.
2. Those who do care about corona and are still completely isolating themselves. They also think school should be open full time, because they are not going to visit with grandchildren whether their grandchildren go to school or not. Even children who are not in school are still going to playgrounds, groceries etc where they may be exposed.
One elderly person I know told me that at least in her time all of their suffering (great depression, wars) was not in their control. Here, we are literally destroying society with our own two hands by not allowing kids to go to school, so parents can't work etc etc

In terms of immuno compromised, I have a friend whose son is immune comprised due to cancer. She absolutely doesn't think everything should stay closed because of her son. In fact, she told me that not much really changed in her life because of corona. She ALWAYS needs to be super careful, because even a cold can be dangerous to him. So she is basically keeping all the same precautions that she was doing even before corona.

So my question is if the elderly and compromised themselves don't think schools should be closed, then why does everyone else think it is necessary?
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twizzlers1




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 10:26 am
I agree with you 100%! My father is at home and is not going out because he has health issues and is over 70. He thinks life should totally go back to normal and he's about ready to move on as well. Especially the kids! He thinks that this is absolutely nuts. And I no people who can not afford to go shopping yet for Rosh Hashanah because they are out of work right now. these were jobs that they had pre Corona but for let go because their employers could not keep them on. In my opinion this is a much bigger deal than people that might get sick. I know many people who have gotten sick and thank God they have all recovered.
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imasoftov




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 10:31 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
... every single elderly person I know thinks ...

Yes, it is boring as heck to have the same conversation with every single person you meet but no one is forcing you to.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 10:39 am
I'm fine with the schools being open, as long as you cut the classes in half so the kids are not crowded together. Enforce mask wearing and hand washing at all times, even if it takes up a significant amount of the day until the routine is established.

Lunch should happen in classrooms, and recess should be done in shifts to keep kids spread out.

Remote learning should be available for kids who still need it, for whatever purpose.

Or you could send to this school: https://worldisraelnews.com/10.....pose/ Good times!

“There is no supervision of the boys, no one knows what is going on inside the boarding school, and also students who have symptoms are not isolated from the other boys, but stay to sleep in the same room,” the parent said.

A student at the Rina Shel Torah yeshiva in Karmiel said there are about 300 boys there sick with coronavirus, but most of them intentionally infected themselves by sharing a waterpipe with “sick guys with symptoms and guys it was not clear if they were infected.”

The student said the goal was to get sick and recover so that the students begin studying in the fall session “without capsules and in a calm and relaxed way.”
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amother




Blush
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 11:37 am
It isn't only about the elderly and immunocompromised.

It's about the pregnant-with-hypertension, and diabetics, and obese, and asthmatics, and and and and.

Furthermore, public policy should not be decided by whether people are willing to risk getting sick and then burdening the healthcare system with their care. It should be based on best scientific practices to protect society as a whole.

Just because every driver you know tells you they don't think speed limits should be enforced doesn't mean their belief should become public policy. An individual may have no problem facing specific risk, but society as a whole must look out for each other.

In simple terms: whatever specific vulnerable people believe about school reopening is not the point. Right now, we all have a duty to each other and should take all necessary precautions. If that means schools opening in a way that is less than ideal for parents, somewhat uncomfortable, etc, then so be it.
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amother




Plum
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 11:41 am
I mean. Schools opening rely on teachers. So the real question is do teachers want to open schools...

There's all sorts of opinions on that one. I am eternally grateful that my school's teachers felt that school should open and they should be there to teach in person. God bless them.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 12:02 pm
I am very happy that my grandchildren can attend school and have a normal life for the most part. I disagree, however, with families who will endanger others by attending big weddings or traveling to hotspots and then sending kids to school to infect other kids and their families.
I don't think that life will be ruined if chol hamoed is spent playing ball in the park with the family or if a bat mitzvah has to be a party in the classroom where the whole class can dress up that day and have treats.
No, I don't think that zoom school is the answer and I drive one grandson to playgroup and am happy that he is happy but I don't like seeing an entire society trash safety rules.
Some old people have mild coronavirus while young people can sometimes get severe cases. I personally am trying to eat right, exercise, take supplements, wear masks, avoid crowds, etc but I see people who are younger than me who are more neurotic about avoiding it than I am so I don't think that society's problems are all caused by selfish old people.
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Rutabaga




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 12:21 pm
Most people I know think schools should open as long as everyone takes precautions. And by everyone, I mean the kids, the teachers, the staff, the bus drivers, and the parents and the larger community. If everyone takes precautions (wearing masks, social distancing, washing hands, no large gatherings), then the virus won't spread in the community and schools and shuls won't have to close.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 12:28 pm
I would say this; because I know that few people are taking precautions, I don't volunteer in the school (they recently asked for volunteers) and I don't substitute but before coronavirus, I would have been happy to.
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nchr




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 3:33 pm
It's a little complicated because not all elderly are in a position to be making decisions. Many people I know who are immune compromised or with underlying conditions think schools should be open with options for people who don't want to go to school and with regulations like masks. On another note, almost all elderly I know think kids shouldn't be in school until 5 or 6 and that petch is more effective than words so...
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 4:10 pm
nchr wrote:
It's a little complicated because not all elderly are in a position to be making decisions. Many people I know who are immune compromised or with underlying conditions think schools should be open with options for people who don't want to go to school and with regulations like masks. On another note, almost all elderly I know think kids shouldn't be in school until 5 or 6 and that petch is more effective than words so...


Exactly! How many people who were living in nursing homes were given the choice about coronavirus patients being admitted there?
Exactly who or where are these elderly busy bodies who are preventing children from attending school? How much power do they have to prevent kids from going to school? Some elected officials are elderly so maybe they are to blame. Otherwise, I am not sure that the elderly have anything to say about it. They are certainly in their right to avoid close contact with school children if they need to do so for health.
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amother




Coffee
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 4:21 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
I'm fine with the schools being open, as long as you cut the classes in half so the kids are not crowded together. Enforce mask wearing and hand washing at all times, even if it takes up a significant amount of the day until the routine is established.

Lunch should happen in classrooms, and recess should be done in shifts to keep kids spread out.

Remote learning should be available for kids who still need it, for whatever purpose.

Or you could send to this school: https://worldisraelnews.com/10.....pose/ Good times!

“There is no supervision of the boys, no one knows what is going on inside the boarding school, and also students who have symptoms are not isolated from the other boys, but stay to sleep in the same room,” the parent said.

A student at the Rina Shel Torah yeshiva in Karmiel said there are about 300 boys there sick with coronavirus, but most of them intentionally infected themselves by sharing a waterpipe with “sick guys with symptoms and guys it was not clear if they were infected.”

The student said the goal was to get sick and recover so that the students begin studying in the fall session “without capsules and in a calm and relaxed way.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/w.....e=amp
This is what came to my mind after reading your post!
I'm totally tempted myself to just catch it and be done with it but we have no proof that you can't have it a second time yet!
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amother




Brown
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 4:24 pm
[quote="Rutabaga"]Most people I know think schools should open as long as everyone takes precautions. And by everyone, I mean the kids, the teachers, the staff, the bus drivers, and the parents and the larger community. If everyone takes precautions (wearing masks, social distancing, washing hands, no large gatherings), then the virus won't spread in the community and schools and shuls won't have to close.[/quote

Its weird that some actually think that you can go to school practicing those 'precautions' without it affecting the children.

Its even stranger to me that many people got the virus despite watching...clearly it is not in our hands.

The healthiest thing we can do now is allow the kids to function as normal kids. Period.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 5:17 pm
[quote="amother [ Brown ]"]
Rutabaga wrote:
Most people I know think schools should open as long as everyone takes precautions. And by everyone, I mean the kids, the teachers, the staff, the bus drivers, and the parents and the larger community. If everyone takes precautions (wearing masks, social distancing, washing hands, no large gatherings), then the virus won't spread in the community and schools and shuls won't have to close.[/quote

Its weird that some actually think that you can go to school practicing those 'precautions' without it affecting the children.

Its even stranger to me that many people got the virus despite watching...clearly it is not in our hands.

The healthiest thing we can do now is allow the kids to function as normal kids. Period.


I would say that is true if during the time that children were not in school people were taking precautions but we know that they are not. I am not sure how people are supposed to be on board with traveling to hotspots and then sending kids to school or attending mega weddings and then sending kids to school. There are bound to be people who don't want to risk their health or their life in order to go back to pre-pandemic life and it's not only elderly people who feel that way.
Maybe the anger should be at people who put their families and everyone else's at risk rather than at the teachers and the schools and the elderly who somehow failed to contact Cuomo and DeBlassio to demand an end to the school lockdowns.
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Fri, Sep 11 2020, 5:33 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:

A student at the Rina Shel Torah yeshiva in Karmiel said there are about 300 boys there sick with coronavirus, but most of them intentionally infected themselves by sharing a waterpipe with “sick guys with symptoms and guys it was not clear if they were infected.”

The student said the goal was to get sick and recover so that the students begin studying in the fall session “without capsules and in a calm and relaxed way.”



I don't see why this is bad. Let them all quarantine together with the virus, get over it, and therefore not spread the virus to people who are older and more likely to get more severely ill.

Look, Israel hasn't closed the borders. People are going in and out - we have had meshulachim here like crazy. Coronavirus isn't disappearing tomorrow, the more you lockdown, the more it lingers because it's, you know, GLOBAL. Isn't your goal, FF, to live your life as normal as possible? How do you think that will happen if coronavirus stays for years on end, infecting a few people at a time until we all rush back indoors?

Also, the vaccine that hasn't even made it to the masses is not the answer. Best estimates suggest it won't protect much more than half the population.
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jerusalem90




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 2:23 pm
I'm not old, but I saw where.someone wrote "I'd rather see my grandchildren, hug them, and risk dying of Corona, then sit isolated at home and risk dying of loneliness". I'm pretty sure that if I were old, that would be my Outlook, because I hate loneliness and don't believe that life should be prolonged past the point of quality of life
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amother




Aqua
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 2:29 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
I don't see why this is bad. Let them all quarantine together with the virus, get over it, and therefore not spread the virus to people who are older and more likely to get more severely ill.

Look, Israel hasn't closed the borders. People are going in and out - we have had meshulachim here like crazy. Coronavirus isn't disappearing tomorrow, the more you lockdown, the more it lingers because it's, you know, GLOBAL. Isn't your goal, FF, to live your life as normal as possible? How do you think that will happen if coronavirus stays for years on end, infecting a few people at a time until we all rush back indoors?

Also, the vaccine that hasn't even made it to the masses is not the answer. Best estimates suggest it won't protect much more than half the population.


Israel is in lockdown starting Friday for at least two weeks. About time if you ask me.

The schools? A joke. Yes, the kids are in masks. Masks hanging off their chins. You need to ask each kid a million times to cover his nose.
At least 10 or 20% of the kids and the staff in any given school are at home quarantined at any given time. Big balagan.

I think there should be school up to grade seven maximum. After that, online for the next two months. Situation in Israel has gone from one extreme to another.
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amother




Aqua
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 2:30 pm
jerusalem90 wrote:
I'm not old, but I saw where.someone wrote "I'd rather see my grandchildren, hug them, and risk dying of Corona, then sit isolated at home and risk dying of loneliness". I'm pretty sure that if I were old, that would be my Outlook, because I hate loneliness and don't believe that life should be prolonged past the point of quality of life


I live in Israel and most of the grandparents I know are isolating themselves from their grandchildren.
Better to not hug the grandchildren for 6 or 12 months than get sick and risk never hugging them at all.
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 2:46 pm
Quote:
A student at the Rina Shel Torah yeshiva in Karmiel said there are about 300 boys there sick with coronavirus, but most of them intentionally infected themselves by sharing a waterpipe with “sick guys with symptoms and guys it was not clear if they were infected.”

The student said the goal was to get sick and recover so that the students begin studying in the fall session “without capsules and in a calm and relaxed way.”


The yeshiva in Karmiel is also under complete lockdown, with a guard on every entrance. In a few days time, any new diagnoses there will not be allowed to go home directly after Yom Kippur because their ten/thirteen days will not be up. And since they are not practicing separation, any boy who has not had it, will not be allowed to go home for Bein Hazmanim, because they will be in bidud from contact with positive cases. I don't know if the boys have realized that yet. There's going to be a huge outcry when they do.
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amother




Aqua
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 3:44 pm
Elfrida wrote:
Quote:
A student at the Rina Shel Torah yeshiva in Karmiel said there are about 300 boys there sick with coronavirus, but most of them intentionally infected themselves by sharing a waterpipe with “sick guys with symptoms and guys it was not clear if they were infected.”

The student said the goal was to get sick and recover so that the students begin studying in the fall session “without capsules and in a calm and relaxed way.”


The yeshiva in Karmiel is also under complete lockdown, with a guard on every entrance. In a few days time, any new diagnoses there will not be allowed to go home directly after Yom Kippur because their ten/thirteen days will not be up. And since they are not practicing separation, any boy who has not had it, will not be allowed to go home for Bein Hazmanim, because they will be in bidud from contact with positive cases. I don't know if the boys have realized that yet. There's going to be a huge outcry when they do.


Why wont they be allowed home to do their bidud at home? Girls frim sherut leumi and boys from the army who need bidud are sent straight home (either parents pick up or army sends special transport. Not on public transport obviously).
I don't think the yeshiva can force people to stay.
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