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Is it a sin to never marry or have kids?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 8:21 pm
My DD has no plans to marry or have kids, even though all of her friends are getting married now.

I totally support her choices, and can't even imagine pressuring her into doing something that will make her miserable. Some day she might changer her mind - or she may not. Either way, I just want her to be happy.

Some people need a husband and kids in order to be happy, and some don't. I think both choices are valid, and that they should be CHOICES, free of the guilt tripping and societal pressure.
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amother




Green
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 8:26 pm
I don’t know that we’re put on this earth just to live a happy life. I think that specifically because marriage and children is so difficult, we should go through it. The experience changes us and forces us to work on ourselves.
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STMommy




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 9:08 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I'm not talking about someone who tried to get married and sadly couldn't find anyone. I refer to a woman or man who knows they arent marriage material. They have friends, family, hobbies, career, and an overall great life. They want to live it on their terms and not tie themselves to someone else. I guess I mean being single as a lifestyle choice, not because you have no choice.


At this time my relative is single by lifestyle choice but it was the bedieved not the lechatchilah so I understand your distinction.
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amother




Vermilion
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 9:10 pm
amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:


What is it about our society (at least the one I grew up in) that we’re so desperate to marry young girls off and see them have kids so early?


I am with you on this.
I spent the first year of my marriage crying each time I got my period, running to doctors the second my anniversary came and feeling miserable because I wasnt pregnant.
The pressure of frum society is horrible!
The looks of pity and staring at my stomach. Like we cant possibly be happy because we dont have children yet.
We are BH very very happy. We have become so close as a couple and enjoy each others company so much.
Yes it is possible to be happy even if you dont have children yet, or at all.
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amother




Jetblack
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 9:15 pm
One of my closest friends is single by choice. She's been divorced 10ish years now. It's interesting because she'd be an amazing wife and mother but she isn't interested. I totally respect that and I don't think she has problems with comments. If she'd have never been married snd without a shaitel it would definitely be more difficult dealing with people. With a shaitel people just have more respect.
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amother




Puce
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 9:31 pm
Rav Noach Weinberg talks about the idea that the greatest pleasures that we achieve in our lives are usually a result of the greatest pain or efforts expended.
It follows then that having children is a huge pain- and that’s before they’re even born:) but that the pleasure resulting from that investment is something childless people will never attain. (With tremendous sympathies to those that can’t have children for whatever reason- I don’t mean to be insensitive.)
So no- halachically, women do not HAVE to have children. But you’re missing out if you don’t.
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Sat, Sep 12 2020, 10:03 pm
amother [ Puce ] wrote:
Rav Noach Weinberg talks about the idea that the greatest pleasures that we achieve in our lives are usually a result of the greatest pain or efforts expended.
It follows then that having children is a huge pain- and that’s before they’re even born:) but that the pleasure resulting from that investment is something childless people will never attain. (With tremendous sympathies to those that can’t have children for whatever reason- I don’t mean to be insensitive.)
So no- halachically, women do not HAVE to have children. But you’re missing out if you don’t.

No, it doesn't. Getting hit by a truck is just as painful.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Sep 13 2020, 3:45 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
BUt there is not a single jew out there that could perform every single one of our 613 mitzvot.


This is true. But if you can do a mitzvah you should not pass up the opportunity. I always heard it is wrong to do so.

Obviously if someone wouldn't be a good mom or spouse, people who have mental illnesses or are special needs (many can get married, but I'm saying there are some who cannot) - if someone has a valid reason then it's okay.

But if you don't then you are passing up an opportunity.
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amother




Papaya
 

Post  Sun, Sep 13 2020, 6:01 am
Women have no such obligation. But the grass is always greener on the other side. What makes you think you’d be better off if you had never married? Being single and alone in middle age is not exactly a picnic, and in old age it’s even worse.
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Sep 13 2020, 6:23 am
Its rarely a choice once one reaches old age to not have anyone LO ALENU
saw m y share of people saying stuff
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Raisin




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Sep 13 2020, 6:46 am
If that is what someone really wants and is happy with, I don't think it should be forced on them. (talking about women) Also, I don't think that if someone knows they don't ever want to have s-x, it is fair to subject another person to living a s-xless life.

I think with anything in life, if you are happy and confident with your choices, you won't care about other peoples comments and looks and sideways glances.

But I think the women who truly don't want kids or marriage are quite few and far between.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Sep 13 2020, 9:27 am
STMommy wrote:
My relative is over 40 and unmarried/no kids after over 15 years of hundreds of first dates, relationships where the other party ended it, and spells where no one was setting them up, so now they've given up and will remain single unless someone almost literally falls on them because they refuse to be set up anymore.
And is perfectly normal.
And had a verrrry open mind about who they'd be willing to date.
Sinner? Nope, don't think so.


There is a question that will be asked after 120: Did you occupy yourself with be fruitful and multiply. (Now does this apply to women, not necessary for this post.) The idea is, did you try, did you make a good faith attempt.

Like your relative.

Hashem created all sorts of relationships in life as a metaphor for how to relate to Him. People can still relate to Hashem even without such fully developed relationships though arguable, it might be more challenging. But doable.

Also, we are to emulate Hashem and His major attribute is His desire to give. Marriage and parenting are real giving bootcamp. They're the shortcuts to becoming true givers. But can someone develop him and herself to be a giver without marriage and children? Of course. Again, it's challenging. But doable.

Now, back to OP. I'm sorry that life is dragging you down now. But when you imagine that spouseless, childlless life, who would you be? You still want to be a highly developed giver.

Maybe you just need to nourish yourself now. Some regular healthy self-care. Sorry I can't send you some kugel this Shabbos. Hugs!

ETA: Oops, I'm following the post and see that this does not apply to OP. Sorry!


Last edited by PinkFridge on Sun, Sep 13 2020, 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Sep 13 2020, 9:28 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I'm not talking about someone who tried to get married and sadly couldn't find anyone. I refer to a woman or man who knows they arent marriage material. They have friends, family, hobbies, career, and an overall great life. They want to live it on their terms and not tie themselves to someone else. I guess I mean being single as a lifestyle choice, not because you have no choice.


People shouldn't be living their lives in wait. Even if they want to get married they should feel that each day is well-lived and meaningful. I think that makes them attractive marriage material.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Sep 13 2020, 9:31 am
amother [ Green ] wrote:
I don’t know that we’re put on this earth just to live a happy life. I think that specifically because marriage and children is so difficult, we should go through it. The experience changes us and forces us to work on ourselves.


We have to define happiness.
Our happiest moments are when we're in the right place at the right time, doing what we should be doing right now.
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Learning




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Sep 13 2020, 10:32 am
The human nature is that women want to have a husband and children. In the secular society it’s a known thing that women try to get a guy to marry them but the guys usually want only to have zex at least until later or when they feel like settling down which is much later than the women feel like. So I think that the frum girs are lucky to get married and have a man committed to them without going through a lot of guys and being dumped after living together for years in hope of getting married to realize they were being used and replaced. Of course there are exceptions to this rule. Maybe this is why men have the obligation and women don’t. A woman with no family is usually unhappy. This is just human nature. We can’t change that. Halachacly a woman can support Tora without getting married.
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amother




Ivory
 

Post  Sun, Sep 13 2020, 10:45 am
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
No, it doesn't. Getting hit by a truck is just as painful.

huh? that makes no sense. she didn't say that pain = gain. she said that no pain = no gain. inverse error/denying the antecedent
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mirror




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Sep 13 2020, 6:52 pm
As I understand it, all women are obligated to be married by 19 years of age and have a (minimum of one) child every 1.5 years until age 49 or menopause, whichever comes first. She must work full-time but is allowed three days of vacation rest after giving birth.

Furthermore, no cleaning help is allowed whatsoever during these child-bearing years, as the cleaning help may not be dressed completely modest.

Any questions?
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Mon, Sep 14 2020, 12:21 am
mirror wrote:
As I understand it, all women are obligated to be married by 19 years of age and have a (minimum of one) child every 1.5 years until age 49 or menopause, whichever comes first. She must work full-time but is allowed three days of vacation rest after giving birth.

Furthermore, no cleaning help is allowed whatsoever during these child-bearing years, as the cleaning help may not be dressed completely modest.

Any questions?

I guess I'll burn in h*ll for getting married at 39
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amother




Lime
 

Post  Mon, Sep 14 2020, 12:26 am
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
huh? that makes no sense. she didn't say that pain = gain. she said that no pain = no gain. inverse error/denying the antecedent

I don't buy the original premise though. Its more painful to never have children than to have children. And then what pleasure does a childless person get from their suffering? Maybe they come to acceptance of Hashem's will. But they don't get pleasure out of it. And you could say the same for a variety of painful things.
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