Underpaid at camp | Imamother

tigerwife

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 10:54 am

Camp staff depend on tips, similar to waitresses. From the camp’s point of view, they are providing food and shelter and a myriad and special activities. I agree that working in a camp is not the best path to earning money, but for many kids, it’s more about the Camp experience than the money.

Chayalle

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 10:56 am

Alot of camps operated at a loss or at much less than previous years, due to increased expenses (some of them had to rent other facilities for their campers, less campers came so less incoming money, increase sanitizing expenses, medical, etc..). I know people who go as staff from year to year, and agreed to do their jobs for less this year in order to help the camp stay open for the season. But they agreed to an amount in advance, didn't leave it open-ended so there were no surprises.

amother

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:00 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Well, if your child see's how you're reacting, you can't expect her to react differently. Take this as a lesson for life to always discuss and write down pay before taking a job. And if she does go out to work and things don't go her way, she needs to learn to accept it gracefully and discuss it in a mature manner. Anger, bitterness, and sarcasm won't get her far in life.

Yes, thank you. I hope my children will never turn in to people who mistreat others, just because they can, and it's an accepted practice.
I've heard that it's best to stick to just eating kugel with yidden, ( as opposed to working with them) now I see it for myself Can't Believe It

amother

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:02 am

Chayalle wrote:

Thanks, Chayalle. I really hope to be calm and rational by tonight when I see my daughter again. I think I lost it yesterday Sad

amother

Crimson

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:04 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Camps and other seasonal amusement and recreational employers are generally exempt from federal minimum wage laws. That’s why tips are so important.

Unfortunately, based on my kids, $125 a week is pretty normal for camps. Sorry.

As a parent, you can help her realize her mistake (not asking in advance, not having a contract) and what she can do (call, say she reasonably anticipated that her pay would be equal to last summer), but I doubt it’s going to help.

Shana tova.

Except state minimum wage laws override federal laws therefore if ops daughter was an employee in NY then she may be entitled to get $15 an hour (or $11.80 if she worked upstate) plus overtime (if she worked more than 40 hours a week) although there may be exceptions if the camp provided room and board which would be considered a live in position and therefore different than an hourly worker who doesnt live at the place of employment. These laws are definitely complicated and op should consult with an employment lawyer to ensure that her daughers rights are not violated. And this has nothing to do with whether the camp is legal or not (although how do you pass health inspections if you are operating illegally), employees are still entitled to fair wages.

https://www.labor.ny.gov/worke......shtm

amother

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:07 am

tigerwife wrote:

There lots of details I didn't include for a reason - but this wasn't a position anyone would tip for, besides the camp director, possibly.

amother

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:12 am

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

Except state minimum wage laws override federal laws therefore if ops daughter was an employee in NY then she may be entitled to get $15 an hour plus overtime (if she worked more than 40 hours a week) although there may be exceptions if the camp provided room and board which would be considered a live in position and therefore different than an hourly worker who doesnt live at the place of employment. These laws are definitely complicated and op should consult with an employment lawyer to ensure that her daughers rights are not violated. And this has nothing to do with whether the camp is legal or not (although how do you pass health inspections if you are operating illegally), employees are still entitled to fair wages.

https://www.labor.ny.gov/worke......shtm

Thanks. I'll just end up telling the kid it's bashert, kaparah and an experience. But definitely, hearing that I'm not totally off my rocker for expecting a reasonable salary has a calming effect. Smile

Thank you

amother

Tan

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:20 am

My older teen DD was hired to work in legitimate on the books, fully insured camp. She was offered $1050 for 8 weeks (before tax). That was the standard rate and with a contact. Her friends did-for that amount. She chose not to, and to volunteer and babysit instead.
That is standard camp.

Last summer at sleep away-300 per month, not a tipping camp and as a camper-tuition was close to 5k for the month.

amother

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:20 am

watergirl wrote:

I am making an assumption here and I could be wrong. BUT if the camp was not legal and taxes were not paid, they can pay her whatever they want. Minimum wage only applies legally when the job is on the books and/or at a legal workplace.

Sorry, I'm not reading the thread in order of the posts. This was a legal educational facility for older kids. 100% legal.

SixOfWands

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:22 am

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

NY has a minimum wage exemption for individuals working in or for a summer camp or conference of a religious, educational, or charitable institution for not more than three months annually.

amother

Orange

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:23 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yes, thank you. I hope my children will never turn in to people who mistreat others, just because they can, and it's an accepted practice.
I've heard that it's best to stick to just eating kugel with yidden, ( as opped to working with them) now I see it for myself Can't Believe It

Camps paying little does not mean mistreating other's. It was your daughters job to do research and discuss payment in advance.

amother

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:24 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

I hear. I wish I could keep my boys home. For now the camp is mandatory, at least for the first half. I'm feeling so drained by this experience though

amother

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:30 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Camps paying little does not mean mistreating other's. It was your daughters job to do research and discuss payment in advance.

- If you read this thread, everyone is saying paying next to nothing is normal for camps. ---Her research told her double the pay
-This year's camps were in the air till literally the last second. My daughter did what she could in the circumstances.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:34 am

This could be a separate spinoff about the pros and cons of working for a frum employer or community institution. There are many pros, for sure.

But one big con is that with a frum employer (for many people, though not all) you will not be able to publicly complain about any mistreatment, much less even consider any sort of legal action (not saying whether OP's daughter had any viable claim in this case).

amother

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:35 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

I don't think youth corp ran this year. The youth corp money doesn't come out of the camps pocket so it shouldn't really be part of the equation when figuring out how much camps should pay.

Understandably. I think if the child would be told outright how much they are getting paid it wouldn't sting. It was a let down

amother

Jade

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 11:39 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Understandably. I think if the child would be told outright how much they are getting paid it wouldn't sting. It was a let down

At 19, though, this is a valuable learning experience about jobs, the workplace, and looking out for yourself. Better to learn about how to look out for pitfalls as she is starting to enter the workplace as an adult.
I wouldn't categorize her as a child.

watergirl

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 12:10 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

But her research was WITH Youth Corps. The camp's pay minus YC is very low. Also, at first it sounded like she was a camp counselor, then you said she had a different sort of job there. Did she research people who had that same position?

amother

Lime

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 12:28 pm

1. she received room and board, access to a swimming pool, and probably some other perks (a trip or two? a concert? talking from my own staff experience...)

2. she signed no contract and just assumed she'd get more

3. standard pay in camps is NOT more

The camp did absolutely nothing wrong. Your anger is misplaced. If you want to be angry, be angry at yourself for allowing your dd to do a job without basic info like how much the compensation was.

amother

Purple

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 12:36 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you

Sorry Op for your bad experience! Unfortunately it's not fair but that is the going rate for working in a camp!
Since you have nothing to lose at this point,this it what I would advise my daughter:
call camp director and explain that you're sorry you didn't discuss salary before camp but it was a learning experience to do so on next job. I was very disappointed in the amount I received, I was extremely happy at the job and tried to do the best I could but I am 19 yrs old and could have picked a different higher paying job can you please reevaluate how much you gave me?
You never know what they'll respond!!

amother

Slategray

Thu, Sep 17 2020, 12:51 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

Camps and amusement are not bound by this. Even in NY.