How would you move on ? Too many questions in my head

amother

Amber

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:05 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Honestly, I am still surprised to hear from most posters that talking on the phone unlimited is ok for a teen . As someone just had mentioned . They are out of the house from early morning until evening, I have this gut feeling that it's still not so ok to allow to be on the phone this much and putting limits and rules to it is just reasonable, whereas I did understood from most posts that its very normal. I do get this that its 100% ok to allow phone time and its healthy . But again my point. He was already out the entire day with friends. Why do I still need to allow him stay on the phone ? And I do feel it needs guidelines.
I'm a bit surprised that people thought it's very normal..

Can you elaborate more on what part of it bothers you? Like I mentioned, I personally would be bothered because I want to spend time with my son. Is that what bothers you or is there something else? Why do you feel it shouldn’t be “allowed”?

dankbar

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:24 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It's not about phone time or anything else....it seems like the two of you are locked into power struggle. Whatever you don't want him to do....he will do....
He wants independence. You want control. Talking on phone is not as bad an avlah as many other stuff teens do. Is it wasting time? Maybe. Maybe they have dmc which are productive & helps him sort himself out?
Is it dangerous? Destructive? Immoral? If it's just old fashioned yapping on a phone not surfing net or watching filth then....
I understand that it might get you nervous if you are more of a goal oriented, productive type, but developing socially & emotionally is also an important trait

NotInNJMommy

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:29 pm

dankbar wrote:

I agree with this. The book series "Love and Logic" is a good source of some ideas. The approach is intended to help make responsible, competent adults by recognizing that children want and need a certain level of control as they mature. And, parenting, discipline, teaching, etc. need to recognize that and avoid making things power struggles.

The reality is that by 15 yrs old, a child has a lot of control and the parents have very little. Parenting is different there. The modes of direction/compliance/punishment that are more appropriate for younger children are less effective for teens. For teens, suggestion, recommendations, accountability, etc and other forms of suggestion/influence can be more effective.

ora_43

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It's not black and white. Plenty of things are acceptable in some families, and unacceptable in others.

It sounds like here the issue is that you thought it was super obvious that he shouldn't be on the phone, while to him, it felt like a totally new rule that was coming at him out of nowhere. (and yeah, his reaction wasn't great.)

It's fine to make rules and limits, but it's best if they're clear to everyone in advance. Because one person's "why on earth are you still on the phone, that's so weird" is another person's "who doesn't talk to their friends until 1am every night?" IOW - your normal is not your son's normal, is not your neighbor's 'normal'... etc.

Anyway. I'm glad everything worked out. Make sure that you explicitly tell him that he does bring you nachas, because you wouldn't want him to think that you were serious about that part.

amother

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 2:31 pm

ora_43 wrote:

No it was not a new rule the issue with the phone . We had mentioned many times that past 11 we dont agree he should be on the phone but I guess he needs constant reminders .

I do wanna add that I do see a very good experienced machanech , and her m'halach is never, DONT BE FIRM OR DONT GIVE THEM CONSEQUENCES, just the opposite. She believes even with teens . They need strict guidlines, rules , and they need to know if they break certain rules they will need to do something about it which wont be very pleasant. She always talks about firmness . Even they are teens they need to know to count with parents. Of course labeling and judging them is never ok , but having rules , making guidlines, and limits is how you teach them to be prepared for real life.

In today's generation the problem is that parents have so much pressure and are being so afraid they will loose their children or are just simply afraid of their kids , that most will rather give the greenlight to almost everything . Here on this thread alone I was able to see how people were thinking as if I'm off the moon for asking my kid not to be on phone after a certain time , and I'm even asked why I'm bothered or why I care him be on the phone very late, when he was already all day spending with friends , and I dont get that question. But anyway:

Why it bothered?

1) talking loud late at night

2) unlimited and living without boundaries isnt healthy .

3) teaching him limits.

It comes a time when enough is enough , and it always comes a tomorrow to continue be with his friends.

If I'm depriving him mostly socially, thats not good . Here he is in no way deprived . He doesnt live in a nutshell. He has lots of his space and free time . I DO LIKE TO SET LIMITS TO MY KIDS , TEACH BOUNDARIES, AND BE PRESENT SOMETIMES WITH FAMILY. I think it's very understandable and reasonable not to allow a certain time of the day to hang out with friends, and that's ok . Teen might be upset and wont wanna understand it but I think a parent has a full right to make rules or demand if she sees something is too much . I was taught that too much of anything isn't good , which I really believe. Besides love . Love should be unconditional. But here were talking about a different topic.

amother

Amber

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 2:42 pm

OP, I completely disagree with setting limits just on principle with no real reason behind it. I can absolutely get behind not being on the phone after a certain time at night, either because he’s making too much noise or has to go to sleep or some other legitimate reason. But not to let him talk on the phone because too much time with friends is too much of a good thing? There are lots of limits that naturally need to be set in life (such as mentioned above, bedtime or not making noise late at night). Why would you add more just for the sake of creating limits? I agree that being firm has a time and place and is important in parenting. But if there’s really no real reason behind you not wanting him on the phone other than you don’t like it, then I’d strongly encourage you to restructure your thought process. As others have said, this isn’t just about the phone. I don’t believe in rules for the sake of rules. There are enough rules that do need to be set for real reasons. No need to add more.

Speaking as a parent of wonderful well behaved teens and a professional who works with many children/young teens and parents.

asmileaday

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 2:43 pm

Of course teens need boundaries and rules. But it needs to be very clear, set ahead of time in a calm atmosphere and the consequences need to be laid out in advance and again very clearly.
It seems like you haven't really set those boundaries except lashing out in the heat of the moment.

It also seems like there's something about the dynamic in your house or with your relationship that your son is trying to avoid. Almost like the phone is an escape for him. Try to see what really interests him and how you can interact with him pleasantly so he'll WANT to be home and around you.

asmileaday

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 2:45 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

Absolutely I agree with this! I was trying to pinpoint what was bothering me about this "chinuch expert's" mehalech op was talking about (or maybe that's just how she interpreted it).

ora_43

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 2:59 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No it was not a new rule the issue with the phone . We had mentioned many times that past 11 we dont agree he should be on the phone but I guess he needs constant reminders .

That wasn't so clear from your post. I think you're getting a lot of confused responses/ responses explaining why your son's behavior isn't so abnormal, because your posts have been talking about whether talking on the phone that late was "normal," saying that you told him he shouldn't have been on the phone because he had already spent so much time with friends, that it's more than average...

I think if you had said, "We have a rule that he can't use the phone after 11, but he was on the phone until after 12, and I got angry," the responses here would be different.

I don't mean that as criticism. Just, when you're reading the responses here, keep in mind that that's part of why people are saying what they're saying.

If 'no phones after 11' is the rule, are there set consequences for breaking the rule? If not, I'd start there. Eg warn him that if this happens again, you're going to take away his phone for a day. And then if it does happen again, just follow through on the punishment, with no anger or criticism.

(Although do give him a chance to explain, now, if there's some particular reason this is hard for him. Does he not notice how late it's getting? Is the 11pm rule usually OK for him, but when he's off school he's up until 12 and gets bored? etc... )

dankbar

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 3:06 pm

You can't control his schedule. You can tell him in morn what you expect of him/suggest/guide to be done today, like helping, learning, being home on time etc.
The rest, like scheduling & figuring out what to do when, you have to let him figure out on his own. That way he will feel like he has more control of his day, and will likely try to please & come thru.
The way you started your OP, was this was my 15 yr old schedule today. You are not his manager. You are his mom. Sounds like you are checking his productivity, how he used his time etc....
This might be what bothers him. You checking constantly on him.
Also you asked for help, but are adamant that your way is right.