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Is Hashem speaking to holy women?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:29 am
I always hear about how women are on a higher spiritual plane than men (hence why we don't need so many mitzvos).

Why are there never stories about Hashem speaking to very holy women? Why does Hashem only speak to men, who aren't on our level and can never hope to be?
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amother




Burgundy
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:34 am
First, there are some women in Tanach who were spoken to by Hashem. There are far fewer prophetesses than prophets, but they do exist.

Second, that line about women being more spiritually elevated than men and hence not obligated in lots of mitzvos? It's nonsense. Someone decided it would make women feel better, and it became the standard pablum. (I'm not denying that there may be different modes of male and female spirituality, only that applying it to the halachic system doesn't hold water.)
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ChanieMommy




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:45 am
Didn't Hashem speak to Sarah Imeinu?

And to shimshon's mother?
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:46 am
Yes, women are born complete, and from there it goes on
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amother




Wine
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 9:08 am
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
First, there are some women in Tanach who were spoken to by Hashem. There are far fewer prophetesses than prophets, but they do exist.

Second, that line about women being more spiritually elevated than men and hence not obligated in lots of mitzvos? It's nonsense. Someone decided it would make women feel better, and it became the standard pablum. (I'm not denying that there may be different modes of male and female spiritual
ity, only that applying it to the halachic system doesn't hold water.)

The way I understand is that in Judaism, everything is connected to time in regard to the moon. Commandments that are time dependent help us be more connected. Women by nature already have the connection to the moon via the monthly cycle so they don't need to perform those Mitzvos to develop that connection.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 10:09 am
There's female prophets. Devorah was one. Esther HaMalkah is another.

There's more.
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 10:13 am
amother [ Wine ] wrote:
The way I understand is that in Judaism, everything is connected to time in regard to the moon. Commandments that are time dependent help us be more connected. Women by nature already have the connection to the moon via the monthly cycle so they don't need to perform those Mitzvos to develop that connection.


A little pagan for my tastes, though Artemis is admittedly pretty cool.

Also, a regular monthly menstrual period? That always makes me laugh, I never had a regular period in my LIFE. A “moon cycle” is just as real as werewolves to me.



Seven nevios:
Sarah, Miriam, Devorah, Chana, Avigayil, Chulda, Esther

Not even all 4 imahos were nevios.
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 10:37 am
OP, it's unclear if you are referring to actual prophesy, or simply holy women who have ruach hakodesh and holy stories attached to their names. I imagine that many, many such women have existed over the centuries, far more than what we know about. But perhaps due to their holiness and modesty, they never mentioned it to anyone and we have never heard of them.
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amother




Burgundy
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 10:41 am
amother [ Wine ] wrote:
The way I understand is that in Judaism, everything is connected to time in regard to the moon. Commandments that are time dependent help us be more connected. Women by nature already have the connection to the lmoon via the monthly cycle so they don't need to perform those Mitzvos to develop that connection.


Which would make sense if women were never obligated in time bound mitzvos. But we're bound in the lo taaseh portion of all time bound mitzvos. And various limudim mean being obligated in the asehs of shabbos and yom tov, among others. Then there's taharas hamishpacha, which is by definition limited to married women of childbearing age and also time bound. And plenty of other examples. You get the idea.

So, no.
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 10:58 am
One can have irregular periods they are still cycles, non bleeding cycles are cycles, etc. also influence on birth, it's also the moon.

Heck, women are born full, with their eggs, their doros, and this is a tremendous joy but also a loss mourned with 80 instead of 40, in the times of the temple (and some very ld edos)

We don't get a bris

We don't need time mitzvos be remain "hooked"
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amother




Tangerine
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 11:07 am
I’ve never understood the women have a natural cycle connection. I have had a veset kavuah (for interval) for most of my life, but I don’t feel any greater connection to the moon (or time in general) than the men around me.

Oh, and what a amother Burgundy said; “that line about women being more spiritually elevated than men and hence not obligated in lots of mitzvos? It's nonsense. Someone decided it would make women feel better, and it became the standard pablum. (I'm not denying that there may be different modes of male and female spirituality, only that applying it to the halachic system doesn't hold water.)“ is absolutely true! It’s just said to make women feel good and accept the status quo, but it has no validity in either halacha or hashkafa.
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 11:47 am
I don't feel connected to the moon, either, but the thing is there

As for validity, well, sorry if you don't feel it (the holiness not the moon)
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:30 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I always hear about how women are on a higher spiritual plane than men (hence why we don't need so many mitzvos).

Why are there never stories about Hashem speaking to very holy women? Why does Hashem only speak to men, who aren't on our level and can never hope to be?


I think we fool ourselves into thinking that we got a “get out of jail free card” with the lack of imperative for us to do mitzvahs. Many women say things like “oh, it’s great! I can sleep in and my husband can go to minyan!” Or “I don’t have to eat in a succah, it’s so freeing.” Etc etc. Mitzvos are there to improve us and to increase spirituality. Without it, admittedly, we are lacking, and many of us will never be on the same level of someone who does all these things.

There’s a Gemara that discusses tefillin, and how most women were too ignorant really to be trusted with it, with the exception of Michal bas Dovid. I don’t know what this means really (it actually doesn’t say the word “ignorant”, but “clean”), but I think it just proves what we’ve been discussing.

However, I think Hashem has mercy on us, because He put us in this position. I think it’s no coincidence that we model our tefilah after Chana. I think we have An instinctual yearning to connect, (See Chava’s curse) just like we yearn for love or romance, and that yearning can often bring us closer to God than a man, who’s comfortable in his cave. It’s a total stereotype, and not always true, but it’s often true. And that’s why we can survive and thrive even with our mitzvah handicap.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 2:52 pm
We are connected to the moon not because of a monthly cycle that many women don't get monthly and many women don't get at all - it's because we are connected to the moon's essence and tafkid.

There's lots of material on this - I'm reading a lot recently in Circle, Arrow, Spiral. (A book) It's truly fascinating.
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amother




Brunette
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 2:58 pm
I'm sure there are more, we just don't hear about them because history and commentary is written by men.
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nkw




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 2:58 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
We are connected to the moon not because of a monthly cycle that many women don't get monthly and many women don't get at all - it's because we are connected to the moon's essence and tafkid.

There's lots of material on this - I'm reading a lot recently in Circle, Arrow, Spiral. (A book) It's truly fascinating.

Highly recommend it by miriam kosman
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amother




Seashell
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 5:05 pm
There were 7 neviot and 49 neviim. So while women are somewhat underrepresented, one can't say that Hashem never speaks to them. As at least some prophets had to confront kings and angry crowds of people back in the era of prophesy, those cases would have been unsuitable for women. And let's keep the numbers in perspective - 99.99999 % of all Jewish men and women of all times weren't and aren't prophets.

The right way of us speaking to Hashem davka has been derived from a woman's prayer - Chana's.
Women are praised for more insight into Hashem's will - they didn't take part in the sins of the golden calf and of the spies because they knew better. The entire yetziat mitzrayim was in the merit of righteous women. Rachel Imenu's prayer is credited with the return of Am Yisrael to Eretz Yisrael. There are more examples, I'm just too tired to find them all now.

I notice that the title of your thread is women speaking to Hashem and then in the post itself you turn it around into Hashem speaking (or allegedly not) to women.
What do you really want? Nothing at all prevents women from speaking to Hashem and trying to change the world. As of Hashem speaking to us - today there are no prophets, we all, men and women, have to make do with recognizing Hashem's answers to our calls in the events in our lives and inside our heart.

True, men get more mitzvot and public rituals. Maybe they need them more than women do, to keep them spiritually connected. But when it comes to speaking to Hashem in personal tefillah, we all are on the same footing and use the same phone line, so to say. It has never occurred to me to be jealous of someone else's connection to Hashem. I'm busy trying to improve my own.
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 5:14 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
First, there are some women in Tanach who were spoken to by Hashem. There are far fewer prophetesses than prophets, but they do exist.

Second, that line about women being more spiritually elevated than men and hence not obligated in lots of mitzvos? It's nonsense. Someone decided it would make women feel better, and it became the standard pablum. (I'm not denying that there may be different modes of male and female spirituality, only that applying it to the halachic system doesn't hold water.)


Women are considered greater than men in a spiritual sense. Especially when comparing spouses. The woman is greater.

I don't know that this greatness is a reason for not having been given some Mitzvos. I can though easily see how someone can make that correlation. It definitely is connected because once you define a woman it explains why she has to keep certain Mitzvos and not others.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 5:15 pm
Thisisnotmyreal wrote:
Women are considered greater than men in a spiritual sense. Especially when comparing spouses. The woman is greater.


Source, please.
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 5:17 pm
imorethanamother wrote:
Source, please.


Shma bekola for one.

I'll go find more.
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