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Cry it out - I feel like crying!
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amother




Babypink
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:02 am
tichellady wrote:
??? I don’t understand how you are comparing cio to hitting a child And withholding food. I really don’t. Sometimes I feel like I’m living on a different planet from other posters on this site. This is one of those moments. I did a lot of research on cio and according to all current research it is totally safe . Sometimes I wish my parents did it for me since I was a terrible sleeper as a baby and toddler and I think I had health ramifications as a child from being sleep deprived.


Science says that not tending to a child until it stops crying can cause attachment disorders.

Therefore it may be that the "research" you consulted on the matter might have been just one side of the medal, but it might be that somehow you did not come across the other position.

Maybe it is mainly a question of how it plays out in practice... If a child falls asleep after 5 minutes, there is no problem. But never, never should you let your baby cry for 40 minutes without tending to it... And if the baby cries for 40 minutes a few nights in a row and then stops, this might not be the victory it seems to be, but the beginning of an attachment disorder...
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amother




Mustard
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:05 am
6 months is too young for cry it out.
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amother




Babypink
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:05 am
allthingsblue wrote:
I just did a quick google search. When I searched "spanking," every article said it's not a good thing and can have long lasting negative effects.
When I searched "cry it out," most articles said there are no long lasting negative effects.
The two cannot be compared.


ehhh.. this is not a reliable method of doing research...

So don't trust your instinct that this would "prove" there is no harm in "crying it out"...
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allthingsblue




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:20 am
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
ehhh.. this is not a reliable method of doing research...

So don't trust your instinct that this would "prove" there is no harm in "crying it out"...


I've read books written by doctors.
And I've read articles written by reliable medical professionals. and I've spoken to my pediatrician.

If anything, the articles writing otherwise are written by non-credentialed bloggers, and feel-good types.
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allthingsblue




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:22 am
Where are all this scientific articles? I can't find any citing the view that CIO done in a healthy watchful manner causes any harm.
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Rachel Shira




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:35 am
Imamother skews towards being extremely anti-CIO. There are other online communities where you’ll get more support. I recommend Precious Little Sleep (book and Facebook group). I know it’s not popular to say this here, but sleep training is not a bad thing, in fact it’s the greatest parenting decision I ever made. My kids are well adjusted, sleep amazingly, have no attachment issues, and I’m a better mother because they sleep reliably and independently.
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Tzutzie




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:39 am
Letting a baby cry and cry without tending to the baby is just plain cruel imo.
I doubt this is what op is doing. Even now with my son, when I do need tk let him cry a bit ill go in amd comfort him every few mnutes and talk to him. Sometimes thru the door.
(He's much older and has already shown that he understands what im saying).

My son was always a mamas boy and he does. Not. Like. Being. Left. Behind.
Yesterday he was waiting 1.5 hours by the door ti wait for his mommy to come back.
He was after nap, fed, had his favorite toy. He just sat there and tried to outsmart the lock (which he almost managed to do)

I just think a 6 mo is very little. At that age they don't understand the difference between needs and wants.
Baby wants to be held for baby it = I NEED to be held.... At around 9-10 months they start to differentiate between the two.

But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. And it looks like w op this is a "gotta do" situation.

Op, a seriously sleep deprived mother is no joke. Sleep training aint easy at any age.

We can give our kids healtby food and they cam get sick anyway..... Its not a=b. Its what hashem decides. But we have to try our best.

We can only do what we can do. The rest is up to hashem
I wish you good luck with this and iyh your baby will be just fine.
.


Last edited by Tzutzie on Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Yellow
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:39 am
tichellady wrote:
This book didn’t work for my child at all! If it worked for your kid, you are very lucky and really shouldn’t be commenting on other people’s methods since you have a naturally good sleeper. I think many of the people who are so against sleep training didn’t have a child who didn’t sleep. I was Actually against sleep training until I realized it was dangerous for me to continue without making a big change

Im impressed that as a someone who did CIO, you read that book first. It does seem that you tried other options before resorting to CIO.
I still feel strongly that CIO is wrong on a lot of levels but that is impressive on your part as most CIO people won’t read a book like that.
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:43 am
Some of these statements are a bit extreme.
OP said that she went in to check on him several times.
That's not called leaving your baby alone in a dark room to scream for hours.
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Rachel Shira




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:43 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Im impressed that as a someone who did CIO, you read that book first. It does seem that you tried other options before resorting to CIO.
I still feel strongly that CIO is wrong on a lot of levels but that is impressive on your part as most CIO people won’t read a book like that.


CIO people? Who do you think we are? I’m a normal, extremely loving mother and before I sleep trained my baby I learned about the science of sleep, explored my options, planned an age appropriate schedule and bedtime routine, and asked for advice from professionals. I don’t know anyone who stuck their baby in a room alone in a fit of desperation one night.
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amother




Yellow
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:48 am
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
I had a friend who did "crying it out" or "self-soothing" or something like this and the result was that the children would make a huge fuss BEFORE going to bed, because they knew nothing would help them once they were in bed.

Also, the first children with whom she did this had a very bad connection to their mother later in life.

Crying it out is not the "miracle cure" they promise you.

Science says that you should not let a baby cry for a longer period of time, until the baby understands it's not worthwhile crying and stops... This could cause attachment disorders.

What you can do is teach your child a little bit of patience, that is in general wait a few seconds before you pick up, or react with your voice first, and wait a bit for the rest...

So it could be that children who progressively learned to be a bit patient are better at self-soothing when they wake up during the night...

But don't do 10 minutes crying, and kal vachomer not 40 minutes...

I agree with much of you post but huh? We don’t teach babies patience by withholding their needs by a few seconds! Actually the best thing you can do for your baby is tend to their needs right away. That teaches them that someone cares for them and is tending to them. This gives the security and attachment that everyone is referring to . We teach patience at a later preschool age stage.
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amother




Yellow
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:54 am
Rachel Shira wrote:
CIO people? Who do you think we are? I’m a normal, extremely loving mother and before I sleep trained my baby I learned about the science of sleep, explored my options, planned an age appropriate schedule and bedtime routine, and asked for advice from professionals. I don’t know anyone who stuck their baby in a room alone in a fit of desperation one night.

You sound well thought out and well intentioned. I feel very strongly that letting a baby CIO is very wrong on a lot of levels. But I do respect that you tried to go about it in a thoughtful well intentioned way as opposed to haphazard.
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 8:58 am
Rachel Shira wrote:
CIO people? Who do you think we are? I’m a normal, extremely loving mother and before I sleep trained my baby I learned about the science of sleep, explored my options, planned an age appropriate schedule and bedtime routine, and asked for advice from professionals. I don’t know anyone who stuck their baby in a room alone in a fit of desperation one night.


I actually do.
They were mothers who were trying all the gentle sleep techniques with babies who refused to sleep or stay sleeping, and after days of running on no sleep, they were so desperate and afraid of self harm or something.
Personally, I've always wondered if all the sleep books that don't work on colicky babies and back to sleep are linked to higher PPD incidents.
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Rachel Shira




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 9:02 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
You sound well thought out and well intentioned. I feel very strongly that letting a baby CIO is very wrong on a lot of levels. But I do respect that you tried to go about it in a thoughtful well intentioned way as opposed to haphazard.


Thank you. And I fully respect anyone who chooses not to sleep train for whatever reason. I didn’t think I would until I couldn’t take it anymore. My mental health was suffering in addition to my sleep. Now I know this is what works for me. What bothers me is when people want or need to sleep train and are greeted with contempt or other negative reactions. I assume each person does it for a reason, not just to let their baby cry for the heck of it.
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 9:07 am
I found my children had a harder time sleeping at about five and a half months and it was because they were ready to start solid foods maybe that will make a difference for you. maybe the baby is hungry.
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amother




Yellow
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 9:08 am
Rachel Shira wrote:
Thank you. And I fully respect anyone who chooses not to sleep train for whatever reason. I didn’t think I would until I couldn’t take it anymore. My mental health was suffering in addition to my sleep. Now I know this is what works for me. What bothers me is when people want or need to sleep train and are greeted with contempt or other negative reactions. I assume each person does it for a reason, not just to let their baby cry for the heck of it.

Right. That sounds difficult.
Btw I do sleep train but without crying. The two are not incompatible. My kids are all amazing 12 hour sleepers bh and I do not do CIO.
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 9:15 am
Trust your instinct. I personally chose other methods to start a sleep routine early on and soothe the baby to sleep/drowsiness without CIO, but...with each of my kah 3 kids there was some point where I did just have to leave them or they'd have never fallen asleep. I didn't really base it entirely on age on the calendar. I went with their personalities and a little bit their age. They did not cry for hours. By the time they were ready for this step, they cried for 5-10 min max for 2 nights max after weeks of a consistent night routine, and I trusted my instincts that I knew the type of cry for my babies and knew it was a protest cry not a fear/discomfort cry. It was never pleasant to hear my baby cry, but it wasn't torture since I knew they were ok. If mom's gut feeling is they need her, she needs to honor that. If mom's gut feeling is some level of "extinction" sleep training is in order, she needs to honor that too.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 9:15 am
Rachel Shira wrote:
Imamother skews towards being extremely anti-CIO. There are other online communities where you’ll get more support. I recommend Precious Little Sleep (book and Facebook group). I know it’s not popular to say this here, but sleep training is not a bad thing, in fact it’s the greatest parenting decision I ever made. My kids are well adjusted, sleep amazingly, have no attachment issues, and I’m a better mother because they sleep reliably and independently.

LOL. When I joined and posted an article anti-CIO, I was creamed. Granted, that was nearly a decade ago. Wink
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stillnewlywed




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 9:55 am
Rachel Shira wrote:
CIO people? Who do you think we are? I’m a normal, extremely loving mother and before I sleep trained my baby I learned about the science of sleep, explored my options, planned an age appropriate schedule and bedtime routine, and asked for advice from professionals. I don’t know anyone who stuck their baby in a room alone in a fit of desperation one night.


This Thumbs Up
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stillnewlywed




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 9:57 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Right. That sounds difficult.
Btw I do sleep train but without crying. The two are not incompatible. My kids are all amazing 12 hour sleepers bh and I do not do CIO.



How do you sleep train without any crying at all?
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