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How would you feel if someone didn’t tell you they were a BT
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:17 am
Do you think it’s something people need to know? Is it dishonest to keep it private? How much of your journey do you think people are entitled to know/to a non BT how much do you think you’re entitled to know?
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tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:19 am
I’m confused. Someone I’m dating? Or just a friend or acquaintance? I don’t expect people to share personal things with me unless they want to ( but would expect more sharing from my husband)
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amother




Copper
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:19 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Do you think it’s something people need to know? Is it dishonest to keep it private? How much of your journey do you think people are entitled to know/to a non BT how much do you think you’re entitled to know?


In shidduchim, the other party is entitled to know. Otherwise, no one else is entitled to know.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:19 am
It isn’t anyone’s business unless they’re contemplating marrying you.
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amother




Natural
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:20 am
It is really no one's business. Why do people feel entitled to know the details of another person’s journey? Unless its for shidduchim maybe.
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essie14




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:21 am
I have many friends who are totally open about their upbringing and I have friends who I have no idea how they were raised. Why would it matter?
Unless you are talking about a dating situation. Then of course that should be discussed.
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amother




Powderblue
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:24 am
In shidduchim, it is imperative.
Otherwise, I think BTs have a tremendous amount to be proud of, but if they don't want to disclose it is not anyone business at all.
Why should it be, do you no longer trust their kashrut? Their kavana and carefulness is probably better than yours.
(I do imagine that it would come up organically at some point if you are fairly close between Jewish Geography, discussing camp, or the kids school)
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amother




Royalblue
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:32 am
im also confused. seriously non of anyone's business.
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Frumme




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:32 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
1)Do you think it’s something people need to know?
2) Is it dishonest to keep it private?
3) How much of your journey do you think people are entitled to know/to a non BT how much do you think you’re entitled to know?


1) Only for shidduchim. I don't see why it's anyone's business unless the BT wants to share the information. Some people become BTs at a very young age with their family, for example. Everything about them could be FFB (religious schooling, tznius clothes, etc) but technically they could be a BT. It's just so arbitrary in most situations.

2) No. Some might be proud of their BT status, where others might be afraid of the stigma attached to it. Whatever the reason, they have the right to their privacy and the right to choose whom to share the information with.

3) no one is entitled to a BT's journey, except perhaps again for shidduchim (where details like eligibility to marry a kohen might be at play). A BT isn't just entertainment at a shabbos seuda....
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shmosmom




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:48 am
I remember going to a shabbos meal by someone, and she told me "btw, we're having another guest named Michelle. She's a baalas tshuvah who was married for 7 years, got divorced and is more modern now. She has 2 kids, both of who are frum." And I remember asking her "why is all this info necessary? I'm sure she'll share whatever she wants to share". She's like "what do you mean it's such an interesting story".
It left me feeling so uncomfortable. Did she share everything she finds interesting about me with everyone else at the table? Probably.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:52 am
To answer the question in the title, I'd be like, "Cool, that's great that they integrated so well into the frum world, I'd never have known."

If I thought they had gone to great lengths to hide it, I'd be sad for them that they were made to feel ashamed of themselves.

My parents are BTs, and so are my in-laws, so that might color my perceptions.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:53 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Do you think it’s something people need to know? Is it dishonest to keep it private? How much of your journey do you think people are entitled to know/to a non BT how much do you think you’re entitled to know?


I think it is perfectly normal if it is not a shidduch. Why in the world?
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Mommy1:)




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:55 am
it's a sensitive subject. I remember learning in the sefer Chofetz Chaim Shmiras Halashon that one is not allowed to mention that so and so is a BT. I think no one should be pressured or have to share that - unless it's a shidduch at stake.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:56 am
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
I remember going to a shabbos meal by someone, and she told me "btw, we're having another guest named Michelle. She's a baalas tshuvah who was married for 7 years, got divorced and is more modern now. She has 2 kids, both of who are frum." And I remember asking her "why is all this info necessary? I'm sure she'll share whatever she wants to share". She's like "what do you mean it's such an interesting story".
It left me feeling so uncomfortable. Did she share everything she finds interesting about me with everyone else at the table? Probably.


I am a BT and I hate that, makes me feel like an animal in the zoo.
Sometimes people manage to express their excitement and interest in a reapectful way but often they don't, so it makes one feel like an object.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 1:05 am
Er, why would I care if someone is a BT?

I would be interested if the person were a giyores (just being honest), but as for a BT, why is that interesting? Really don't give a hoot one way or another.
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Fox




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 1:55 am
Mommy1:) wrote:
it's a sensitive subject. I remember learning in the sefer Chofetz Chaim Shmiras Halashon that one is not allowed to mention that so and so is a BT. I think no one should be pressured or have to share that - unless it's a shidduch at stake.

This. It is a serious aveira to put someone in a position where he/she might be embarrassed. As others have mentioned, it is relevant for shidduchim -- but not to prove what a close friend you are or provide entertainment for your tisch.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 2:20 am
Outside of a shidduch situation, I don't see why you think you are entitled to know the details of anybody's personal background.
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:30 am
You dont get to have people open their heart to you
For shidduchim is different
The person also may refrain from saying because some think all BTs aren't virgins
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Raisin




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:42 am
I think it would be weird to be close friends with someone and not know that about them. I would think the whole relationship is based on lies. I also honestly can't see why someone would hide such a fact. It would be like a friend making you think they came from a family of ten when really there are only six.

Acquaintances you have just met - yes, you don't need to know that.
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amother




Navy
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:47 am
Raisin wrote:
I think it would be weird to be close friends with someone and not know that about them. I would think the whole relationship is based on lies. I also honestly can't see why someone would hide such a fact. It would be like a friend making you think they came from a family of ten when really there are only six.

Acquaintances you have just met - yes, you don't need to know that.


Unfortunately, there are communities where baalei teshuva are second class citizens, and someot who has integrated enough to "pass" may want to hide her history.

Now, why baalei teshuva would be attracted to such communities is an interesting question in itself.
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