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How would you feel if someone didn’t tell you they were a BT
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amother




Wheat
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:53 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Do you think it’s something people need to know? Is it dishonest to keep it private? How much of your journey do you think people are entitled to know/to a non BT how much do you think you’re entitled to know?


No, it's nothing people need to know, and no-one is entitled to know anything. But the world is small, and word will get around...

So for BT it's more a question of: do you yourself want to manage information other people have about you, or do you want to leave it to other people doing it behind your back?
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:56 am
They may also not see themselves as such. I know halachic gerim who don't, for ex, though they halachically are.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 5:31 am
amother [ Wheat ] wrote:
No, it's nothing people need to know, and no-one is entitled to know anything. But the world is small, and word will get around...

So for BT it's more a question of: do you yourself want to manage information other people have about you, or do you want to leave it to other people doing it behind your back?

I probably wouldn't want to be part of a community of closed-minded, vindictive, gossipy ninnies in the first place.
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 6:12 am
No one is entitled to your story.

Let me say that again.

No one is entitled to your story.

Again.

No one is entitled to your story.


There was once a thread here about when divorce is "justified" if not abuse. And I have a very good reason that was not abuse but you know what it was no one's d@mn business. And I said as much to another poster, bc that information is private.

Ppl always complain now a days about social media evil and everyone is fake... Well you know what, you are not entitled to anyone else's reality. You only get what they allow you to see.

For an majority of your relationships, you will only ever see a small slice of that person's life. Just a tiny amount of who they are.

I was all work late one night and I heard my boss take a phone call from his kid. He sounds like a great dad. I actually had a moment where I was like "oh yeah... He's someone's husband and father" bc I never get to see him in that role, so even though intellectually I knew it existed, I never internalized it.

Back to the BT question, my father is a BT and it only really hit me a few weeks ago that hey... You have a "story". Which I only wondered bc of something I saw online.

So I guess in sum, I'm not entitled to anything. I don't know anyone full story. And you don't need to define anyone by one aspect of their life, they are a lot more than that.
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sarahmalka




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 6:32 am
This whole thread makes me scratch my head from a different perspective and not in a good way... I am a BT and never hid it, will talk about that with whomever wants. It never occurred to me to be ashamed or embarrassed about it, or to be nervous to tell someone in case they might judge me. I'm proud of my journey! Are you all saying that people would judge me NEGATIVELY for finding my way out of spiritual galus and the gashmius of a secular upbringing? Why on earth would this be something to hide? Makes me love my community even more that I hardly ever pick up on a judgmental kind of vibe, not from yeshivish types, modern types, nor Lubavitchers. The only time I feel defensive about becoming more religious is, of course, occasionally around staunchly Reform or Conservative Jews. (I live in Northeast USA, OOT)
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 6:40 am
sarahmalka wrote:
This whole thread makes me scratch my head from a different perspective and not in a good way... I am a BT and never hid it, will talk about that with whomever wants. It never occurred to me to be ashamed or embarrassed about it, or to be nervous to tell someone in case they might judge me. I'm proud of my journey! Are you all saying that people would judge me NEGATIVELY for finding my way out of spiritual galus and the gashmius of a secular upbringing? Why on earth would this be something to hide? Makes me love my community even more that I hardly ever pick up on a judgmental kind of vibe, not from yeshivish types, modern types, nor Lubavitchers. The only time I feel defensive about becoming more religious is, of course, occasionally around staunchly Reform or Conservative Jews. (I live in Northeast USA, OOT)


"Hiding" part of your life isn't always from shame. Sometimes certain things just aren't relevant. Or don't come up. I don't know much about my boss' family at all. I have met some of his kids briefly, when they came in and his wife even briefer.

Especially in acquaintances, there should be no reason to be offended for not being told about every aspect of a person's life.


The point is it's their story to decide how, when, and if to share.
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amother




Turquoise
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 7:02 am
Not sure I understand the question. There are a lot of things that people don’t tell people. if they come up in conversation, fine. I also don’t tell people how much dental work I’ve had recently, or all the learning challenges my kids have. If they come up and there is a reason for
Sharing, I don’t mind. But just to share so that the other people know? Not sure that makes sense.
People are entitled to their privacy.
I am a BT. I don’t hide it- I have nothing to be ashamed of. Hashem put me into a certain family and believe me— my family is a lot more normal than some frum people!
But I don’t announce it. And I don’t discuss it a lot. With plenty of my friends, it’s never come up (I did go to frum schools most of my life, so can play Jewish geography pretty well).
When I moved into my new house, I became friends with a new neighbor. Our kids are the same age and we have a lot of similar interests. We were even going walking together a few Times a week! After we had been living here for over 2 years, it came up that she was a giyores. I really would not have had any idea.... it just never came up and why would she announce it? I think it came up in roundabout way— She mentioned something about a sibling passing away and not sitting shivah or something....
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 7:34 am
I think most people have things about them that are part of them that they never share because why.
I had 2 experiences just last week with a neighbor I've known for more than 6 weeks.
We were talking. And she's like "woah keym I didn't know you have frizzy hair". Yes. My hair is frizzy. Yes I keep it covered. So? Is that a shock? That was weird.

The same neighbor a few weeks earlier. "Keym, your father passed away? How did I not know that? Why didn't you tell me?" My response was because when I met you I didn't say hi I'm keym my father's dead.

It's not that I really care or keep these things a secret. It's that I don't walk around sharing with everyone. The same thing with a BT- even one who's proud and public.
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 7:48 am
I've been thinking about this. I don't think a BT has to inform anyone (except in a shidduch context).

On the other hand, if I was close friends with someone and had known her for a number of years, I might be hurt that she was keeping such a significant part of her life a secret from me. It's a major part of how she grew up, and how her character developed, and gives a wider understanding of who she is.

I don't mean that it has to come up in every interaction, or that there needs to be any formal announcement, but in a close relationship there would be occasions where something like that would come up naturally. If I discovered that a really close friend had been deliberately hiding something like that from me, I might begin wondering what else they had been hiding and what the friendship really was.
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avrahamama




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 7:56 am
sarahmalka wrote:
This whole thread makes me scratch my head from a different perspective and not in a good way... I am a BT and never hid it, will talk about that with whomever wants. It never occurred to me to be ashamed or embarrassed about it, or to be nervous to tell someone in case they might judge me. I'm proud of my journey! Are you all saying that people would judge me NEGATIVELY for finding my way out of spiritual galus and the gashmius of a secular upbringing? Why on earth would this be something to hide? Makes me love my community even more that I hardly ever pick up on a judgmental kind of vibe, not from yeshivish types, modern types, nor Lubavitchers. The only time I feel defensive about becoming more religious is, of course, occasionally around staunchly Reform or Conservative Jews. (I live in Northeast USA, OOT)


Same! Almost word for word.
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 7:58 am
Hiding isn't shame. Like people say you're ashamed if yo uwon't say you have your period.. no
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 9:55 am
Ruchel wrote:

The person also may refrain from saying because some think all BTs aren't virgins


For that matter, some guys assume that no girl who went to a secular college is one, either. And one's virginal status or lack thereof is also nobody's business unless they're contemplating marrying that person.
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allthingsblue




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 9:59 am
It's not something to hide- it is something to be proud of! But, like with almost every life circumstance, it doesn't HAVE to be shared- only if the sharer wants to share. Meaning, no one has a right to be offended if I don't share. It's up to the individual. If it comes up, maybe the person will share. If it doesn't come up, maybe the person chooses not to share.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 10:02 am
amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:
She mentioned something about a sibling passing away and not sitting shivah or something....


FTR a ger is exempt from sitting shiva for his birth family but is absolutely allowed to if he so wishes.
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Frumme




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 10:22 am
sarahmalka wrote:
This whole thread makes me scratch my head from a different perspective and not in a good way... I am a BT and never hid it, will talk about that with whomever wants. It never occurred to me to be ashamed or embarrassed about it, or to be nervous to tell someone in case they might judge me. I'm proud of my journey! Are you all saying that people would judge me NEGATIVELY for finding my way out of spiritual galus and the gashmius of a secular upbringing? Why on earth would this be something to hide? Makes me love my community even more that I hardly ever pick up on a judgmental kind of vibe, not from yeshivish types, modern types, nor Lubavitchers. The only time I feel defensive about becoming more religious is, of course, occasionally around staunchly Reform or Conservative Jews. (I live in Northeast USA, OOT)


Yes. There are people who unfortunately actually believe BTs are "ruining" things for FFBs, in terms of bringing in secular influences (ideas, styles), "lowering" the tznius + spirituality of the community, etc etc thereby delaying the coming of Moshiach. It comes out sometimes unintentionally, but you'll get vibes that BTs can't ever really be trusted with kashrus, or that they must be doing something wrong (always looking for BTs to make mistakes). Sometimes they try to be helpful and give you a "psak" about whatever. It's often a bias they haven't dealt with (would they have said the same to their FFB friend?), but the point is that as soon as some people hear you are BT, you've gained a completely different status in their mind. Even if you became BT as a child, or have been a BT for 40 years....


And unfortunately, I've even seen it here on Imamother. I'll have to look for the thread later, but I remember one in this past year that discussed BTs, geirim, and kiruv. There were a few strange comments about BTs in there, if I remember correctly....
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 10:22 am
To answer your question, OP, I wouldn't "feel" anything. Would I "feel" anything if I learned that someone wore contact lenses, was born blonde, or had studied ballet for 12 years and she never told me? I'm not entitled to people's personal information even if we're very close friends, and most certainly not if we're casual acquaintances. The only thing I would feel bad about would be if through ignorance of someone's background I made a thoughtless remark that might have given them pain.
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amother




Wheat
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 10:33 am
zaq wrote:
To answer your question, OP, I wouldn't "feel" anything. Would I "feel" anything if I learned that someone wore contact lenses, was born blonde, or had studied ballet for 12 years and she never told me? I'm not entitled to people's personal information even if we're very close friends, and most certainly not if we're casual acquaintances. The only thing I would feel bad about would be if through ignorance of someone's background I made a thoughtless remark that might have given them pain.

But then, on the other hand, the whole way of thinking behind this thoughtless remark might be inappropriate anyway...
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yo'ma




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 10:42 am
I’m going to guess, like other threads, that the op is the BT in this case and wanted to know if she should have told someone.
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 11:03 am
zaq wrote:
For that matter, some guys assume that no girl who went to a secular college is one, either. And one's virginal status or lack thereof is also nobody's business unless they're contemplating marrying that person.


I saw this only on imamother. It makes no sense. No one has relations because they go to a college - or then, is work the same ? Because work is also away/not frum.
----------


A BT can sit shiva for a non frum person
Some FFBs have non frum relatives, some of them asking no shiva or creating a shaila whether it's allowed
I see more wildness in so called "edgy" ffb than in many traditional kids who get a filet o fish

As to why a community that is not great to bTs: some do come from those communities and feel a pull. Some feel a pull without knowing why. Some think more is better. Some marry into it.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 11:27 am
Ruchel wrote:
I saw this only on imamother. It makes no sense. No one has relations because they go to a college - or then, is work the same ? Because work is also away/not frum.


Quite so. the people who believe this are obviously from ultra-orthodox communities with very strict gender separation. They assume that if males and females attend classes together, they will end up in bed together. There are men in such communities who will assume that if a female so much as says 'hello' to them, that means she's available for immoral purposes. (Come to think of it, there are secular men who make the same assumption.)

As for work, maybe that's why any number of frum women will work only for frum companies. Not just because they automatically get shabbos and YT off but also because their communities view them as not entirely respectable if they work in secular workplaces where they interact with men?
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