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No Jewish funeral for RBG?
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Blessing1




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:16 pm
Odelyah wrote:
in many important ways she did. and she was a very proud Jew.
People are complex; the world is not so black and white.
It's been a very long galus Sad
https://www.jewishpress.com/in.....9/25/


Many "jews" are very proud jews but they don't live their life as jews at all. All they know about being Jewish is that some great grandmother was jewish.
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malki2




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:17 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
No, she wasn't Orthodox, or even observant. But she was far from "anti-religious."


She did not like religion. So she was anti-religious.
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:18 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
No, she wasn't Orthodox, or even observant. But she was far from "anti-religious."


Thank you for this info. So important to see that
We should never make assumptions about any individual
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:18 pm
malki2 wrote:
Living like a Jew means believing in the 13 principles of faith. It’s a completely semantical matter if you want to say that she lived like a not Frum Jew or not a Jew at all. She was a non-believer. Only Jewish by heritage and by eating bagels and lox and drinking seltzer. Period.


How do you know that she didn't not believe?
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Reality




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:19 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
No, she wasn't Orthodox, or even observant. But she was far from "anti-religious."


So it was surprising to me that her funeral was delayed for so long.

Isn't that unusual for Conservative Judaism?
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:20 pm
Blessing1 wrote:
Non jews also do "mitzvah's" with god in mind. Her life isn't different then the life of a non jew. She didn't live like a jew or lead a jewish lifestyle. There are thousands of jews that their lives are not different then any non jewish lifestyle.


We don't know that she never did actual mitzvos actually with Hashem in mind.

None of us are perfect.

Some of us live more secular lives than others.

That doesn't change that they are Jewish lives.

And speaking ill of the dead isn't particularly Jewish either.

We can never know how much Hashem loves the body of a Jew.
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:22 pm
malki2 wrote:
She did not like religion. So she was anti-religious.


Do you have some sources that support that she was anti-religion and did not like religion? (which is very different from maintaining a liberal practice of a Jewish religious observance.)
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amother




Aquamarine
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:22 pm
The absolute minimum for living one's life as a Jew is believing in the 13 principles of faith, and keeping shabbos, kashrus, and taharas hamishpacha.

Pretty simple.
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Odelyah




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:23 pm
malki2 wrote:
Living like a Jew means believing in the 13 principles of faith. It’s a completely semantical matter if you want to say that she lived like a not Frum Jew or not a Jew at all. She was a non-believer. Only Jewish by heritage and by eating bagels and lox and drinking seltzer. Period.


how do you even know what she believed? she was guided by her higher Jewish values--she was very open about that, and exemplified many of them throughout her life.

she was Bubbie to her grandchildren and took them to high holiday services every year..
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Blessing1




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:24 pm
amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:
The absolute minimum for living one's life as a Jew is believing in the 13 principles of faith, and keeping shabbos, kashrus, and taharas hamishpacha.

Pretty simple.


And she didn't keep either of those. The answer to OP's question is pretty simple. Why didn't she have a halachik funeral? Because she didn't lead a halachik life. That's it. The rest of the discussion has nothing really with OP's question.
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:25 pm
malki2 wrote:
Living like a Jew means believing in the 13 principles of faith. It’s a completely semantical matter if you want to say that she lived like a not Frum Jew or not a Jew at all. She was a non-believer. Only Jewish by heritage and by eating bagels and lox and drinking seltzer. Period.


That's not halachah at all. I suggest you learn a little more about the codification of Rambam's 13 principles of faith. They are more descriptive than prescriptive/proscriptive and were a result of living in a dominant Muslim culture where principle of belief were a way of thinking about G-d/the World, etc.
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avrahamama




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:26 pm
Odelyah wrote:
in many important ways she did. and she was a very proud Jew.
People are complex; the world is not so black and white.
It's been a very long galus Sad
https://www.jewishpress.com/in.....9/25/


What an interesting story. So I found that in reform judaism (I taught hebrew school in a reform shul for many years) there is a very strong emphasis of bein adam l'adam. However, bein adam l'makom is a different story. God exists. But he doesn't care about kashrut, shabbat, mikvah. he just wants you to be a moral ethical good person.

but being adam l'adam is a very very important relationship that HKBH stresses he cannot manage for you...

I dont need to 'judge' her. BZH every Jewish neshama fulfills their tikun in this world so we can bring down the shechina and mashiach.
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Odelyah




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:26 pm
malki2 wrote:
she was anti-religious.
many many non-observant Jews are not anti-religious. they are tinokos shenishbu due to lack of education/ living in galus Sad

Last edited by Odelyah on Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:27 pm
She wasn't cremated. That's already a level.
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Blessing1




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:29 pm
Rubber Ducky wrote:
She wasn't cremated. That's already a level.

Was thinking the same.
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:29 pm
Blessing1 wrote:
And she didn't keep either of those. The answer to OP's question is pretty simple. Why didn't she have a halachik funeral? Because she didn't lead a halachik life. That's it. The rest of the discussion has nothing really with OP's question.


We don't know that her funeral is not according to halachah. Living OOT, I know of many levayas that are delayed for various reasons and the meis is still buried according to halachah in the Orthodox cemetery.

We really don't have enough information to assume that her burial isn't kosher nor should bother looking for reasons to believe it isn't unless we are actually in a position/have an obligation to influence otherwise.

Let's stop talking ill of the dead, even while the body is still above ground.

I also know many who do have a kosher burial and value it even if they weren't particular about other parts of Jewish observance.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:42 pm
Odelyah wrote:
many many non-observant Jews are not anti-religious. they are tinokos shenishbu due to lack of education/ living in galus Sad


AIUI, RBG was raised at least somewhat observant, but broke from it after her mother died. She was upset that women were not counted in a minyan, and that she was not allowed to say kaddish. So I doubt she was tinokos shenishbu.

But there's a huge difference between being "non-religious" and being "anti-religious." RBG was largely NON-religious, but she didn't not actively oppose anyone else's practice (ANTI-religious).
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:45 pm
Reality wrote:
So it was surprising to me that her funeral was delayed for so long.

Isn't that unusual for Conservative Judaism?


Yes, it is. But I heard in passing, while watching the service at SCOTUS, that the rabbi was OK with it under these circumstances. But I don't think that she was an observant Conservative Jew in any case.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:48 pm
malki2 wrote:
She did not like religion. So she was anti-religious.


And her blood ran just as Jewish as yours.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Sep 25 2020, 12:49 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Rabbi Lauren Holtzblatt of Adas Israel Congregation, a Conservative congregation in DC, conducted the service at the Supreme Court ceremony. My guess is that she gave permission (a "heter" if you will) for the delayed burial.

It was a relatively traditional service, RBG was not embalmed, and the casket was wood.


Chasdei Hashem

Rabbi Tendler of Sons of Israel Lakewood has a lot of ties to the surrounding communities
He says a week doesnt go by when he isnt fighting with a Jew who wants to cremate a relative
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