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Forum -> Judaism
Does this sound like a frum hashkafa?



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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 3:37 pm
A non religious acquaintance sent me the following email, copied from facebook. It struck me as very in line with a Reform or conservative view of Judaism because of the emphasis on social justice, but something about it doesn't quite sit right with me. I think because it leaves out mention of Hashem, for one. But is there anything else that's a bit off?

Can you help me understand this?

Jewish tradition does not focus on the afterlife. There are a few thoughts on what happens when we go, some of which look a bit like reincarnation, and some of which looks like time to reevaluate our actions and relationships on earth, but for the most part, the whole "Do good things, get good reward from God; do bad things, get bad punishment from God" is just not part of our worldview. (Spoiler alert: this is why I love The Good Place so much- the final season feels very in line with Jewish thoughts on the afterlife.)

When Jews speak of righteousness, it is never with the idea of an eternal reward. We work to be good humans to others and ourselves because justice and peace are their own rewards. We don't know what happens next, but we know what happens here, and that is enough. The pursuit of justice is one of the highest callings of Judaism, and it should not be misinterpreted as vengeance or punishment. The ideas of justice and sustainability are inextricably linked in Judaism. A system that is unjust cannot sustain, and a system that is unsustainable cannot be just.

It is said that a person who passes on Rosh Hashona is a Tzedek/Tzaddeket, a good and righteous person. When we speak of tzedakah, the word is often translated as "charity" but it is more accurate to say righteousness. Tzedakah can take many forms (including monetary donation) but it's important to note that tzedakah is not a benevolent contribution given to be kind or nice to those who need it, it is to be viewed as a balancing of the scales, an active working towards justice. To use a simple example, one should donate to the local food bank not to gain favor with God, or to be nice to those with less than ourselves, but because it is unjust for anyone to be without food, especially while others have plenty. Correcting injustice, balancing the scales, evaluating the distribution of power and creating equity is tzedakah, the work of righteousness.
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meiravit




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:22 pm
Nope.

The afterlife is a major part of Yiddishkeit. Think: belief in techiyas hameisim is a fundamental of our belief.
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Genius




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:27 pm
We definitely do focus on afterlife for one. And yes the complete absence of Hashem. We also don’t give tzedaka to correct an injustice. We believe Hashem runs the world just right. We give tzedaka because the Torah commands us to, it makes us better people. Poor people should also give according to their abilities.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:29 pm
No wonder it doesn't sit right with you--because it's mostly claptrap.

Jewish tradition does not focus on the afterlife.

We don't obsess about the afterlife like some sects that view olam hazeh as utterly meaningless and thirst ONLY for the afterlife. But olam hazeh is where we make our mark, the only place where we can do mitzvot. Without olam hazeh there would be no point to olam haba. this is where we strut our stuff and prove ourselves worthy or otherwise.

However, it's PARTLY true in that olam haba is a concept mentioned nowhere in the chumash. If the only Jewish book you read was the chumash, you would get the idea that there is no afterlife. there is only Sheol.

"Do good things, get good reward from God; do bad things, get bad punishment from God" is just not part of our worldview.

Say whaaaat? Sachar vaonesh is one of the thirteen Articles of our faith. Ani Maamin be'emunah shlemah shehaborei yitbarach Shmo gomel tov leshomrei mitzvotav umaanish leovrei mitzvotav. What does this person think things like karet and lemaan yaarichun yamecha are all about? What are the blessings and curses on har Gerizim and har Eval all about?


When Jews speak of righteousness, it is never with the idea of an eternal reward
.

Mah pitom? True, we're supposed to keep Torah lishmah, because that's what we were commanded and accepted. Keeping a mitzvah lishmah is superior to keeping it leshem sachar. Nevertheless, we hope for eternal reward, we use it to console ourselves when we see tzadik vara lo, and we do as much as we can to ensure that we merit one.

A system that is unjust cannot sustain, and a system that is unsustainable cannot be just.

Clever wordsmithing, great for a political speech, but what does that even mean? And what does it have to do with the price of lulavim in Bnei Brak? What system is unjust? What system is unsustainable? What is s/he talking about? ( I can think of a system that is unsustainable but this isn't the place to mention it.)

tzedakah is not a benevolent contribution given to be kind or nice to those who need it,

No, it's an obligation, a positive commandment whether we feel benevolent or not. the "be kind or nice" part has to do with the manner in which one observes the commandment. Giving graciously besever panim yafot is superior to giving grudgingly, but that's true for almost any mitzvah. (Except, maybe, something like a Beit Din giving someone Malkot. That would be hard to do graciously.)

Pay no attention. These musings are well-written but utterly ignorant.
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soap suds




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:37 pm
True, the Torah doesn’t make any explicit mention of the afterlife, but it definitely plays a HUGE role in Yiddishkeit.

And, come on! “Do good things, get good reward from God; do bad things, get bad punishment from God" Is straight up one of our ani maamins!
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:46 pm
No. Absolutely not. For reasons posters already noted.
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bigsis144




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:46 pm
As soon as anyone says Judaism is about “correcting injustice”, I assume their religion is Politics.

So many people don’t even know that the “tikkun olam” they preach comes from a phrase in davening that ends in “l’taken olam b’Malchus Shakai”. They have removed HaShem and mesorah to chase something else.

That doesn’t make them bad people, but it’s not Yiddishkeit. It’s lox-and-schmear flavored secular humanism.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 4:56 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
It’s lox-and-schmear flavored secular humanism.


Well said!
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avrahamama




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 5:00 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
As soon as anyone says Judaism is about “correcting injustice”, I assume their religion is Politics.

So many people don’t even know that the “tikkun olam” they preach comes from a phrase in davening that ends in “l’taken olam b’Malchus Shakai”. They have removed HaShem and mesorah to chase something else.

That doesn’t make them bad people, but it’s not Yiddishkeit. It’s lox-and-schmear flavored secular humanism.


I have been saying this tooooo!
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 5:49 pm
Great answers, you all hit the nail on the head! And thank you so much Zaq for the well thought out response.

I think what got me is that there's some measure of truth to some of what she wrote, such as the afterlife, in that Judaism doesn't have a fiery h*ll, but you're all absolutely right that it still plays a big part of course.

And the brachos and klalos, how come I didn't think of that, that's 100% true.

Tikkun, another excellent point!

Thanks all.

Good shabbos and gmar chasima tova!
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