Fear based Yiddishkeit

amother

Salmon

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 10:26 am

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

Between Beis Yaccov teachers and kallah teachers, I'm not surprised that so many women are confused and scared.

Sometimes I think that "Judaism" is ruining yiddishkeit. Sad

Cobalt, your post is making me tear up.
You are so right! I always felt trapped until I moved oot. I feel so much freer now. I serve Hashem as I want to, as what works for me without hating everything about the religion, and I don’t feel like anyone is looking or judging or breathing down my back or choking me.

PinkFridge

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 10:34 am

honeymoon wrote:

Yiras shomayim is defined as awe. When one is in awe of someone they strive to emulate and please them. It is not meant to make you tremble in fear while you observe the mitzvahs.

Unfortunately, many of us were taught a fire and brimstone version of yiddishkeit. Part of it was a result of the chaos of post world war 2 when parents were desperate to see nachas and were losing their children to the challenges of the time. And the cycle continued through the following generations. It's up to us to break that cycle and redefine and teach yiddishkeit as what it really is.

The truth is, that there is fire and brimstone. It's the consequences of our bad choices. As I've learned, Tisha B'Av is when we hit rock bottom, confronted with those consequences.
But the cause and effect isnot always obvious - in fact, more often than not it's not obvious at all; this is the challenging parsha of tzaddik vra lo, and the big challenge of life.

PinkFridge

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 10:36 am

salt wrote:

Regarding teshuva - there are 2 types - teshuva mi-yira, and teshuva mi-ahava (don't know the source)

The higher and better level is teshuva mi-ahava. But to do teshuva mi-yira is also a valid path to teshuva.

So I imagine it's similar with regular every day avodat Hashem - avoda mi-yira and avoda mi-ahava.

Teshuva from awe is different from teshuva because we're scared to death. But yes, even the latter has value.

zaq

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 12:57 pm

Well, we do talk about Yir’at Shamayim and Yir’at Chet, both of which are considered good things. Yir’at Shamayim is a form of respect, yir’at kavod. But yir’at chet can’t possibly be the same thing, so it must, in fact, mean some form of fear.

And we believe in both ahavah and yir’ah. It’s not one or the other—you need an amalgam of both.

Puppies

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 2:57 pm

I really appreciate the responses. I guess I’m glad to see that so many others agree with me and don’t ascribe to this doom and gloom Judaism.

I was also taught about Yiras Hashem being Awe and not Fear. I want to do what Hashem demands of me, because of His awesomeness, His greatness and my desire to connect to that. Not because I’m afraid a lighting bolt will strike me if I don’t.

Of course we need both Ahava and Yirah, but we need to strike a balance between the two.

twizzlers1

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 4:09 pm

I'm a bt and this gloom and doom does not work for me. If I would have been given such a scary view of yideshkeit I would have for sure said I give up from the beginning and have never even tried. I know for some people it works but for me it is such a turn-off. I see with my own kids when they are pushed to do things that they just want to run the other direction but when they are given a lot of warmth and love and room to make their own decisions they are in such a happier place and more connected to Hashem.

Chickensoupprof

Wed, Sep 30 2020, 4:32 pm

Here a BT, it depends on how you got in to Yiddishkeit my first example was Chabad Chassidus which is such a warm lovely Chassidus however it was in some aspects not right for me. But I remember people who were also BT who are really on ''fitting in''. Like they will copy everyone and everything and be really on rules and that is fearing. I remember that a Chabad rov told me that I don't need to turn in a chassidisha lady who walks through Tzfat in the summer heat with seamed stockings. He told me Hashem is already loving every Jew how far he is from Yiddishkeit,the fact that I'm not wearing long thick stockings doesn't matter even before I was BT Hashem loved me and showered me every second with infinite love because I have Jewish neshomo which is clinging to Hashem and he kinda told me that is the first step.
I was so inspired by it, I was so revealed that I don't need to turn my whole garderobe upside down for having the love of hashem.
However later I got really upset at someone who was in yeshiva somewhere in JLM. He was like ''no it is halacha! you should wear stockings! You should.... AND WHAT DO YOU KNOW? I'm a real yeshivah bochur you didn't even go to a BT sem''. That was so hurtful. But yeah there are two approaches.
I see some people in my life who really want to fit in the community and are busier with what the others will think then what actual halacha. For example, my inlaws will say to dh not to touch me at meals because ''it is not tznius and it is private'' they are kinda obsessed what people will think of us and them that they are not ''frum enough''. Bh they will never do this anymore. And even I know really frum men with black hat who give their wives a kiss when they come home from shul on shabbos, they aren't less G-dfearing then someone who chose not to.