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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 1:29 pm
Can someone please point me in the right direction for a source that claims of navuah is assur post the Sanhedrin? Basically claiming to understand Hashem's actions. I know I've learned it, just can't remember where.

So, for example, saying like, Hashem caused Corona because of long wigs, is problematic.
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bananas4bananas




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 1:34 pm
https://www.chabad.org/library.....s.htm
From Chabad.org
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 1:48 pm
bananas4bananas wrote:
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3898883/jewish/Why-Are-There-No-More-Prophets.htm
From Chabad.org


Thank you.

Looking for something a little more explicit.
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cbsp




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 2:36 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you.

Looking for something a little more explicit.


It's not that claims of nevuah are assur...

It's that the gift of outright nevuah stopped, so claims of nevuah are false.

So you need a source that expresses the latter.

Interestingly enough, Rabbi Tovia Singer mentions this concept. Rabbi Singer battles missionaries and other groups that attempt to sway yidden into practicing either outright Christianity or Judaism "plus" (like Jews for J). In a recent video he explains that there was never a contemporary claim that J talked to G-D or had a nevuah - because it was already established at that time that nevuah was gone and he'd immediately be exposed as a fraud.

(I'll try to find the video later b'ezras Hashem)
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 2:38 pm
cbsp wrote:
It's not that claims of nevuah are assur...

It's that the gift of outright nevuah stopped, so claims of nevuah are false.

So you need a source that expresses the latter.

Interestingly enough, Rabbi Tovia Singer mentions this concept. Rabbi Singer battles missionaries and other groups that attempt to sway yidden into practicing either outright Christianity or Judaism "plus" (like Jews for J). In a recent video he explains that there was never a contemporary claim that J talked to G-D or had a nevuah - because it was already established at that time that nevuah was gone and he'd immediately be exposed as a fraud.

(I'll try to find the video later b'ezras Hashem)


That's an interesting insight, thanks.
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cbsp




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 2:48 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
That's an interesting insight, thanks.


Just wanted to clarify.

There's a source in the Torah about not being a navi sheker. That's Devarim 18:20 and on (18:18 talks about true neviim)

If a person were to have a real nevuah, the purpose would be to deliver it to the intended recipient (we learn from Yonah Hanavi what happens when a nevuah is suppressed). So saying a true nevuah today wouldn't be assur from that angle

Nowadays, however, there's no nevuah, so by default a claim of nevuah is sheker.
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 2:54 pm
So I guess what reminds is the nevua for a child's name ? and dream as a 1/60
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imasoftov




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 5:12 pm
cbsp wrote:
Just wanted to clarify.

There's a source in the Torah about not being a navi sheker. That's Devarim 18:20 and on (18:18 talks about true neviim)

If a person were to have a real nevuah, the purpose would be to deliver it to the intended recipient (we learn from Yonah Hanavi what happens when a nevuah is suppressed). So saying a true nevuah today wouldn't be assur from that angle

Nowadays, however, there's no nevuah, so by default a claim of nevuah is sheker.

Well I suppose if they say they know the reason for something, but don't state it as nevuah, they wouldn't violate the prohibition against being a navi sheker. But we can ask, if you're not a navi, how do you know for sure?

Sometimes they'll quote a Gemara that says X happens due to Y. But I don't think that means that every instance of X is due to Y. I once heard a shul rabbi in Israel talk about a case where a more prominent rabbi (I don't remember which one) had blamed some disaster on a particular sin, and the shul rabbi sarcastically said, I understand why the public is angry (they were, it had been in the news), Rabbi Z didn't provide any chiddush, it's a Gemara that everyone knows. I didn't walk out or stop going to that shul right away, but eventually things like this led me to find a different one.
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imasoftov




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 5:24 pm
Ruchel wrote:
So I guess what reminds is the nevua for a child's name ? and dream as a 1/60

If someone names their child "Coronavirus-is-punishment-for-smartphones" or hears that in a dream (or even 60), that doesn't mean it is.
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 5:40 pm
Ruchel wrote:
So I guess what reminds is the nevua for a child's name ? and dream as a 1/60


Naming a child involves רוח הקודש, not nevuah. It's a lower level.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 5:47 pm
imasoftov wrote:
If someone names their child "Coronavirus-is-punishment-for-smartphones" or hears that in a dream (or even 60), that doesn't mean it is.


But people, even Rabbaim, make these kinds of claims. The Torah is explicit that man can't know Hashem, so it seems antithetical to yiddishkeit.
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cbsp




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 01 2020, 6:29 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
But people, even Rabbaim, make these kinds of claims. The Torah is explicit that man can't know Hashem, so it seems antithetical to yiddishkeit.


Well, we also say in shema what will happen if we don't follow Hashem's ways. We also have the brachos and klalos in the Torah. We also have all the neviim and their nevuos that were recorded for posterity - precisely as a message for the generations.

So we're not completely clueless as to what type of behavior is expected of us.

And we do know we're supposed to be "mefashfesh bmaaseinu" when calamity strikes.

A leader is supposed to lead and give mussar when needed.

Most Rabbonim I've listened to have all prefaced their remarks with "I'm not a Navi, there's no nevuah now. But, it's worth looking at what's going on now and see if there's a similarity to events when there was more clarity in the world. What type of behaviors warranted the mussar, of the navi etc."
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