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Hashem is in charge. Is this a comfort?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 9:08 am
I hope nobody minds me asking this question. I've seen quite often here when someone is worried about something there will be a response not to worry because hashem is in charge and he knows what he's doing.

What always bothers me about this answer us that since hashem is hidden in this world, there is plenty of evil and sadness. Hashem is in charge and for whatever reason he chose to bring death, illness, or poverty.

An example I just saw in the politics section. (I don't want this thread to in any way be about politics) someone said she's scared about a certain party getting elected and perhaps it's a good idea to consider leaving the country. (In theory this could apply regardless of who you support) One of the responses was, "not to worry because hashem is in charge and he knows what he's doing". Yet throughout history hasn't hashem allowed people to come to power who were evil and led to catastrophic situations for frum jews? How is it a consolation that hashem is in charge?

And this applies to all outcomes we're worried about. Why because hashem is in charge does it mean it's gonna be ok?

Lastly, it's difficult for me to accept that the comment is meant in terms of that we don't understand hashem, but it's really good. Meaning, true a politician might be elected or re-elected that will be a catastrophe for jews, but it's really good anyway.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 9:25 am
Yes. It is really good. We may have to suffer and even die before we get to see the good. But Hashem is in charge of the full picture. He is in charge of the world and what happens. We can’t control what happens. So we need to learn to let go and allow Hashem to handle it all. We seem to believe that everything is in our power. When you realize that you can let go and you can leave it up to Him, you will feel much more at ease and there is no anxiety.
I actually learned this in a 12 Step program. Their motto is “Let go and and let God”. This was the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. Letting Hashem run your life brings you so much peace of mind. You just need to allow that to happen and it’s not easy to let go, when you feel like you need to control everything and be in charge.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 9:31 am
Not comforting.

Lots of bad things happened on Hashem's watch. Shoah, anyone?

And "it's all up to Hashem" is phrase often used by people who want to abdicate all personal responsibility, or who are too overwhelmed to think about making hard choices.

It's all up to Hashem, but hishtaldut is still a thing.


Last edited by DrMom on Thu, Oct 08 2020, 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Mint
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 9:32 am
OP, I have had this questions for decades. Ive had way too much suffering in my life and way too many "tests" from hashem. I do not see the good in any of it. And no, I dont want to have to wait until I am dead to maybe get a chance to understand why what happened, happened. Im living in the here and now and Im sorry, but no, not everything is for the good and sometimes things really do, just suck Sad
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moonstone




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 9:38 am
DrMom wrote:
Not comforting.

Lots of bad thing happened on Hashem's watch. Shoah, anyone?

And "it's al up to Hashem" is phrase often used by people who want to abdicate all personal responsibility, or who are too overwhelmed to think about making hard choices.


Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth. That's what I think every time I read a "Hashem is running the show" comment. That's a given, but that's not the way we live our lives. If we get sick, we go to the doctor. If we get fired, we look for another job. We don't say these things are Hashem's will, so I'd better stay sick or unemployed. People sometimes throw in a hasty "but we have to do our hishtadlus", although that seems counter to their whole "this is obviously what Hashem wanted" argument.
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BadTichelDay




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 9:45 am
It means the world isn't hefker. Things aren't just going wrong or spinning out of control - they are meant to happen. Even if we don't understand why.
Even if there is horrible suffering and misery, c"v.

Would you rather have it that horrible things happen because of a random chain of cause and effect in a mindless universe governed only by the laws of nature? With no aim or reason?

Or would you want to know that it is all part of some great overall plan, in the hands of Hashem who created all that exists? Even without us understanding the plan, but certain that it does have a meaning?

In the words of Jabotinsky, in his novel "The Five", paraphrased - would you rather be a snail that gets randomly crushed by a passing ox cart, or have a role, even a minor one, even a tragic one, in a grandiose opera?

For me it's a great comfort to know that the world is in Hashem's hands.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 9:47 am
BadTichelDay wrote:
It means the world isn't hefker. Things aren't just going wrong or spinning out of control - they are meant to happen. Even if we don't understand why.
Even if there is horrible suffering and misery, c"v.

Would you rather have it that horrible things happen because of a random chain of cause and effect in a mindless universe governed only by the laws of nature? With no aim or reason?

Or would you want to know that it is all part of some great overall plan, in the hands of Hashem who created all that exists? Even without us understanding the plan, but certain that it does have a meaning?

In the words of Jabotinsky, in his novel "The Five", paraphrased - would you rather be a snail that gets randomly crushed by a passing ox cart, or have a role, even a minor one, even a tragic one, in a grandiose opera?

For me it's a great comfort to know that the world is in Hashem's hands.


Like, very much.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:11 am
thunderstorm wrote:
Yes. It is really good. We may have to suffer and even die before we get to see the good. But Hashem is in charge of the full picture. He is in charge of the world and what happens. We can’t control what happens. So we need to learn to let go and allow Hashem to handle it all. We seem to believe that everything is in our power. When you realize that you can let go and you can leave it up to Him, you will feel much more at ease and there is no anxiety.
I actually learned this in a 12 Step program. Their motto is “Let go and and let God”. This was the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. Letting Hashem run your life brings you so much peace of mind. You just need to allow that to happen and it’s not easy to let go, when you feel like you need to control everything and be in charge.



So if c'vs you were suffering with something and we were talking about it. If instead of saying, don't worry, hashem is in charge so it's all good, I said, don't worry, even if you suffer and die, it's hashem's master plan for that to happen so don't worry about it.

Honestly, would you take comfort in those words?
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:13 am
I once learned in a parenting class that different types of people take comfort in different things. For me, the words "Hashem is in charge" are in fact very comforting, because that means that even if the outcome isn't pleasant, it's not by chance either. It needed to happen to me, and to all others affected by it. Some people don't find that to be a solace, since the outcome may still very well be unpleasant. There is no blanket answer for your question.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:18 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So if c'vs you were suffering with something and we were talking about it. If instead of saying, don't worry, hashem is in charge so it's all good, I said, don't worry, even if you suffer and die, it's hashem's master plan for that to happen so don't worry about it.

Honestly, would you take comfort in those words?


Yes. I live a life of suffering. I have to practice this day in and day out. I only learned how to let go not so long ago. But once I did, I was not only able to feel peace of mind under the circumstances. But I was even able to outright see the blessing in a lot of my suffering. It takes daily self work and practice to allow myself to let go and to let Hashem be in charge. I do my hishtadlus and then when I did as much as I could, I then give it over to Hashem to handle for me. It has been very freeing for me. That does not mean I stopped suffering. It means I don’t feel pulled down by the suffering. I don’t feel a constant worry and anxiety. I don’t feel like giving up. I feel Hashem pulling me in a direction that I ultimately need to go in, even though I may believe in the moment that I need to really be going in the other direction. Then I need to let go and let Him drive the wheel and see where it takes me.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:21 am
moonstone wrote:
Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth. That's what I think every time I read a "Hashem is running the show" comment. That's a given, but that's not the way we live our lives. If we get sick, we go to the doctor. If we get fired, we look for another job. We don't say these things are Hashem's will, so I'd better stay sick or unemployed. People sometimes throw in a hasty "but we have to do our hishtadlus", although that seems counter to their whole "this is obviously what Hashem wanted" argument.



I hear you, but you're talking about things that we can influence and change such as getting a job or visiting a doctor.

What about suffering that there's very little we can do anything about? If you were living during the pogroms and saw your neighbors being murdered, would it be a consolation to hear that hashem is in charge? Or if someone is worried about the current election, I don't believe that when they hear the words "don't worry hashem is in charge", they interpret that to mean that even if jews have to suffer, it was hashems will. They are taking those words to mean that hashem is our loving father and he will always protect us from bad. Except we see many instances where jews weren't protected from bad in this world.

I guess the answer is what thunderstorm said. That everything hashem does is for the good even if we don't see or understand it. I think that many people are fooling themselves though into believing that hashem being in charge will lead to a good result in this world.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:23 am
thunderstorm wrote:
Yes. I live a life of suffering. I have to practice this day in and day out. I only learned how to let go not so long ago. But once I did, I was not only able to feel peace of mind under the circumstances. But I was even able to outright see the blessing in a lot of my suffering. It takes daily self work and practice to allow myself to let go and to let Hashem be in charge. I do my hishtadlus and then when I did as much as I could, I then give it over to Hashem to handle for me. It has been very freeing for me. That does not mean I stopped suffering. It means I don’t feel pulled down by the suffering. I don’t feel a constant worry and anxiety. I don’t feel like giving up. I feel Hashem pulling me in a direction that I ultimately need to go in, even though I may believe in the moment that I need to really be going in the other direction. Then I need to let go and let Him drive the wheel and see where it takes me.



What can I say? You certainly have a terrific attitude about things. May things always get better for you in a way that you can see!
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:24 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
What can I say? You certainly have a terrific attitude about things. May things always get better for you in a way that you can see!
Amen!
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BadTichelDay




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:28 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So if c'vs you were suffering with something and we were talking about it. If instead of saying, don't worry, hashem is in charge so it's all good, I said, don't worry, even if you suffer and die, it's hashem's master plan for that to happen so don't worry about it. Honestly, would you take comfort in those words?


I would. I prefer my suffering and death to have a meaning, even if only Hashem understands that meaning and I don't. The alternative would be assuming blind forces of nature at work, as I wrote above, and that thought would terrify me.

We all must die and we know the world is full of suffering, some of which comes our way. There is no human life that's free of suffering and we all are destined to end up dead one way or another.
It's never easy but at least I'd rather have it with meaning than without.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:33 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So if c'vs you were suffering with something and we were talking about it. If instead of saying, don't worry, hashem is in charge so it's all good, I said, don't worry, even if you suffer and die, it's hashem's master plan for that to happen so don't worry about it.

Honestly, would you take comfort in those words?


I've heard that every inclination has its purpose. Even apikorsus. When someone else is in need you have to act as if Hashem is not around chv and step up to take care of the person.
When someone is suffering, there are many helpful things to say, but a wise person has to know what is appropriate to say to someone, when and how.

What we have to do is fill our personal toolboxes with emunah, so that we can draw on it when we need to.
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:52 am
It’s a comfort, not because we always see the good.

It just comforts me knowing that I can only do that much. Ultimately Hashem will decide for me anyway, no matter how much I do for the outcome.
So I don’t go crazy trying to control my life because I know I’m really not in charge...
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moonstone




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 10:57 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I hear you, but you're talking about things that we can influence and change such as getting a job or visiting a doctor.

What about suffering that there's very little we can do anything about? If you were living during the pogroms and saw your neighbors being murdered, would it be a consolation to hear that hashem is in charge? Or if someone is worried about the current election, I don't believe that when they hear the words "don't worry hashem is in charge", they interpret that to mean that even if jews have to suffer, it was hashems will. They are taking those words to mean that hashem is our loving father and he will always protect us from bad. Except we see many instances where jews weren't protected from bad in this world.

I guess the answer is what thunderstorm said. That everything hashem does is for the good even if we don't see or understand it. I think that many people are fooling themselves though into believing that hashem being in charge will lead to a good result in this world.


No, it doesn't comfort me. It doesn't lessen my pain. To me, it's just a platitude, something people automatically say. It doesn't make me feel OK about G_d letting terrible things happen to innocent people.
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Amalia




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 11:05 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I hear you, but you're talking about things that we can influence and change such as getting a job or visiting a doctor.

What about suffering that there's very little we can do anything about? If you were living during the pogroms and saw your neighbors being murdered, would it be a consolation to hear that hashem is in charge? Or if someone is worried about the current election, I don't believe that when they hear the words "don't worry hashem is in charge", they interpret that to mean that even if jews have to suffer, it was hashems will. They are taking those words to mean that hashem is our loving father and he will always protect us from bad. Except we see many instances where jews weren't protected from bad in this world.

I guess the answer is what thunderstorm said. That everything hashem does is for the good even if we don't see or understand it. I think that many people are fooling themselves though into believing that hashem being in charge will lead to a good result in this world.


Dear OP,

This is a very good and always relevant question.

As far as I understand:

The first part of the bolded sentence, “Hashem is our loving Father” is true. (This is what we are supposed to believe.)
The second part, “He will always protect us from bad,” is what gets people in trouble. Because that is what we want to believe to be true, what we want to feel as we go through life, but it is not actually true.

I very much appreciate you asking this question and the discussion that is developing in response.
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HakarasHatov




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 11:10 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I hope nobody minds me asking this question. I've seen quite often here when someone is worried about something there will be a response not to worry because hashem is in charge and he knows what he's doing.

What always bothers me about this answer us that since hashem is hidden in this world, there is plenty of evil and sadness. Hashem is in charge and for whatever reason he chose to bring death, illness, or poverty.

An example I just saw in the politics section. (I don't want this thread to in any way be about politics) someone said she's scared about a certain party getting elected and perhaps it's a good idea to consider leaving the country. (In theory this could apply regardless of who you support) One of the responses was, "not to worry because hashem is in charge and he knows what he's doing". Yet throughout history hasn't hashem allowed people to come to power who were evil and led to catastrophic situations for frum jews? How is it a consolation that hashem is in charge?

And this applies to all outcomes we're worried about. Why because hashem is in charge does it mean it's gonna be ok?

Lastly, it's difficult for me to accept that the comment is meant in terms of that we don't understand hashem, but it's really good. Meaning, true a politician might be elected or re-elected that will be a catastrophe for jews, but it's really good anyway.
Yes its a comforting reminder. Hashem is in charge but we still have to do our histadlut, so it reminds me to figure out what is in my control, do that then move on and let hashEm handle the rest. Every person's histadlut would be different. The "Bad" or "Evil" things that hashem allowes just look bad, in true reality " bad things are for our benfit we just usually dont see how.

We can see this between Children and parents. For example, some parents might allow their kids to fall down a little when ridding a bike or playing on a playground so that the child can learn to ride a bike or learn about gravity so they dont get seriously injured one day. But the parent wont let the child play on a roof, thats too dangerous. Unless there is a flood, then the roof may be the safest place for them.

Its a kids histadlut to look both ways before crossing the street, sometimes this is nit enough and a parent has to intervene because they see a car far away that is speeding way to fast, so they grab the child firmly and may even "hurt the child". Meanwhile the child is angre at the parent for hurting them, they dont realize they were in danger. Kids dont see the whole perspective of this world and how this world works, so we have to guide them, keep them safe and help them grow.

We are Hashem children, we do not understand how olam haba works, or even the intrinsic aspects of olam haze. Hashem guides us, keeps us safe and allows us to grow. We must do our histadlut, and even though this is not 100% effective, we have to live our lives and let hashem handle the rest.

We see This throughout torah. Hashem allowed Yoseph to be sold so that he can ultimately rise to power, save his family and thus Klal Israel. You and I would probably not be alive today if it were not for this. And although being sold was not desireable as an isolated event, he was wealth and comfortable in Mitzraim.
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amother




Oak
 

Post  Thu, Oct 08 2020, 11:12 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I think that many people are fooling themselves though into believing that hashem being in charge will lead to a good result in this world.


I agree with this 100%! Im suffering a lot lately and some people in my life tell me not to worry because Hashem is in charge, everything will be good. That I need to have emunah and believe in Hashem. I answer them that I fully believe that Hashem runs the world, but at the same time He has made it very clear that things won't be good for me. For whatever reason He chose to give me real hardships.

I heard R Paysach Krohn say that when his father was very sick R' Schwab asked how he was doing and R' Krohn answered that he has bitachon that his father will get better. R' Schwab told him that he's wrong, he has to have bitachon that Hashem will do what He feels He needs to do.

That being said, recently something happened that was really upsetting and hard for me. And it kept bringing more issues and more problems. I was SO, SO ANGRY at Hashem, things are so hard as it is, why did He need to do this now?!

Fast forward a few months and this one bad situation brought about something really good. This doesn't usually happen but it was one time where I could clearly see that Hashem was directing everything behind the scenes!
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