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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:06 am
Mommyg8 wrote:

We feel the same level of discrimination in Israel (maybe even more) that black people feel here. At least, that's how I see it.


I reread this and I must say this is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read.

Talk about playing the victim.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:07 am
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
You do know the Israel's longevity is one of the highest in the world? Much higher than the US. Jews live much longer here than in New York. It can't be that unsafe.


Someone in Israel just passed away at 117 years of age. I wonder what went wrong.
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Blessing1




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:30 am
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
I reread this and I must say this is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read.

Talk about playing the victim.


She's not playing victim, she's right. There has always been an undercurrent of hate against chassidish in Israel. Chassidim can feel it and the rest deny it or say they deserve it.
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amother




Jade
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:33 am
The chutzpah amongst the outliers in Chassidishe NY would fit in well in Israel just saying..
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:34 am
Blessing1 wrote:
She's not playing victim, she's right. There has always been an undercurrent of hate against chassidish in Israel. Chassidim can feel it and the rest deny it or say they deserve it.
Before you say this even one more time, come to israel and see for yourself with your own eyes because you will actually see the truth. Stop just parroting whatever you hear.
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amother




Ruby
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:37 am
Didn't read the whole thread, but we should go to Israel!!
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:44 am
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
She lived in one of the most divided cities in Israel. The tension there between secular and charedi is insane. To give you an example, the charedi city reps just passed a bylaw where all the new streets in a certain secular neighborhood would be neutralized and erased of their Zionist and/or female roots (eg, Anna Frank St. was named Frank St, a street named after two brothers killed as soldiers was erased of their names and named The Brothers St, etc).

I don't deny there are tensions in Israel and there are some sectors that hate chassidim. There are also chassidim that hate secular people and actions like the above add fuel to the fire.

In any case, Beit Shemesh is the most volatile city in terms of divisions.


Do you live here? Which neighborhood?

There are certain groups that are polarized, but for the average person life is perfectly normal here. The tension is manufactured by people who WANT tension, not by the fact that we exist in the same space

The dati/leumi straddle the factions, leaning from MO/Conservadox to RW Yeshivish, and we all get along just fine. Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Ethiopian, I haven't seen any real conflict here - certainly nothing like you see in the US.

I ride the bus with women in covered wigs and thick stockings, while I wear an ankle length denim skirt and no stockings. Nobody spits on me, nobody calls me names, I've had some really lovely conversations with a few of them while waiting for the bus - including Shabbos invites! Surprised

(To be fair though, DD did have a couple of Chassidish girls follow her and whisper "Wh0re!" behind her back. Probably because she was wearing the school uniform that wasn't as strict as theirs. We just wrote it off as teen girls being mean and stupid.)
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:48 am
Blessing1 wrote:
Sorry, but chareidim are not safe in Israel. They're being tortured and attacked. The police brutality against chareidim has always been awful and it's way worse now. Most people don't walk around scared in NY either. I've never felt scared to walk on the street.


There is no police brutality against chareidim in Israel.

In general, in Israel, police is quite heavy-handed against demonstrations and all kinds of disrespect of the law...

So those chareidim who participate in demonstration expose themselves to the general police brutality against demonstrations... or those chareidim who break the law expose themselves to heavy-handed intervention by the police...

I saw no-one on here cry out against police brutality in the case of the BLM demonstrations...

So just be a bit fair in your judgement and compare what is comparable...
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Blessing1




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:50 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Before you say this even one more time, come to israel and see for yourself with your own eyes because you will actually see the truth. Stop just parroting whatever you hear.


I see the hostility towards chassidim and yeshivish/litvish black hatters every time we visit. I'm always surprised how mean the police are. Maybe they have no choice and they need to be more tough? But they're definitely mean and not nice. They don't think twice about using violence towards chassidim and frum jews. My father was once pushed and shoved wildly in Meron for no reason. Literally out of the blue. They wanted them to move faster in a congested area so they just pushed them instead of asking them to walk faster.


Last edited by Blessing1 on Thu, Oct 15 2020, 11:09 am; edited 2 times in total
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:56 am
Blessing1 wrote:
I see the hostility towards chassidim every time we visit. I'm always surprised how mean the police are. Maybe they have no choice and they need to be more tough? But they're definitely mean and not nice. They don't think twice about using violence towards chassidim. My father was once pushed and shoved wildly in Meron for no reason. Literally out of the blue. They wanted them to move faster in a congested area so they just pushed them instead of asking them to keep going.


I strongly dislike the interrogations by security at the airport.
I'm not chassidish...

I always thought it was personally anti-me...

Why do you think the hostility is specially directed against chassidim?
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amother




Saddlebrown
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 11:27 am
I want to point out that many Tzaddikim over the years have said that America will be the final galus for jews. I dont have proof off hand but Ive heard this multiple times over the years. Republican states come with their own issues. White supremacy is as bad as liberal socialists. They all hate us. Its a torah given fact. I’ve lived in NYC and I live with some skin heads now...they all hate us equally.
Israel has its own set of problems. The chareidim are hated. Some cities more than others. Parnassah is not easy. And relocating is tough. Ideally its awesome but nowhere in tanach does it say Jews in galus should move there. Yes it is a huge mitzvah but not a requirement.
OP there is no where to go if you’re looking at safety. We are in galus and hated because that is the halacha. Until now it was sugar coated and now the gloves are coming off. As much as NY has become intolerable for Jews it will become a drop worse until we raise our eyes to hashem.
And let us all remember the story of chanuka...

It is stated that the reason we are required to remember the story of yetzias mitzrayim every day (more than any other piece of our history) is because the final geula will be exactly the same.
Galus pangs becomes intolerable. Jews finally turn to Hashem and cry out to him.
Moshe Rabbenu is NOT welcomed so nicely at first. He had to prove himself many times.... Neither will Moshiach....!

The non maskers will think moshiach is absurd if he says you must wear a mask. And the pro maskers will call moshiach a killer if he says masks are uselss.
So how can we expect moshiach to be accepted by everyone overnight?
By practicing love and tolerance NOW!
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 11:40 am
Blessing1 wrote:
I see the hostility towards chassidim and yeshivish/litvish black hatters every time we visit. I'm always surprised how mean the police are. Maybe they have no choice and they need to be more tough? But they're definitely mean and not nice. They don't think twice about using violence towards chassidim and frum jews. My father was once pushed and shoved wildly in Meron for no reason. Literally out of the blue. They wanted them to move faster in a congested area so they just pushed them instead of asking them to walk faster.


I don't want to generalize -- I'm sure there must be many sophisticated cops -- but they have the overall reputation of having more brawn than brains.

The recruitment requirements are very low (ex: DH passed the entrance exam without knowing Hebrew), and the pay isn't good, so the force tends to attract the lower elements of society.

Because of that tendency, you get the same ridiculous stories whether you're a yishuvnik or a Tel Aviv commuter, a chossid in Meah Shearim or a crackhead on Kikar Tsiyon.
.
I wouldn't take it personally.


Last edited by Rappel on Thu, Oct 15 2020, 11:50 am; edited 2 times in total
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imasoftov




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 11:48 am
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
I want to point out that many Tzaddikim over the years have said that America will be the final galus for jews. I dont have proof off hand but Ive heard this multiple times over the years.

I wonder if similar things were said (or heard) in places that people lived before they came to America.
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 11:50 am
Rappel wrote:
I don't want to generalize -- I'm sure there must be many sophisticated cops -- but they have the overall reputation of having more brawn than brains. The recruitment requirements are very low (ex: DH passed the entrance exam without knowing Hebrew), and the pay isn't good, so the force tends to attract the lower elements of society. Because of that tendency, you get the same ridiculous stories whether you're a yishuvnik or a Tel Aviv commuter, a chossid or a crackhead on Kikar Tsiyon. I wouldn't take it personally.


What Rappel said. Some of the cops are a bit rough around the edges. They are FAR from perfect. But there is no major police antagonism against charedim.
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 11:51 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
I'm sorry, but my son was assaulted by a policeman while walking down the street. He's a typical Chareidi yeshiva bochur. When he turned around and started speaking English the policeman stopped.

In all the years I have lived in the US, I have never had an incident where I or anyone I know was assaulted by the police.


BTW, what do you mean by assaulted? He pushed him from behind? He beat him? He yelled at him?
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 11:53 am
Blessing1 wrote:
I see the hostility towards chassidim and yeshivish/litvish black hatters every time we visit. I'm always surprised how mean the police are. Maybe they have no choice and they need to be more tough? But they're definitely mean and not nice. They don't think twice about using violence towards chassidim and frum jews. My father was once pushed and shoved wildly in Meron for no reason. Literally out of the blue. They wanted them to move faster in a congested area so they just pushed them instead of asking them to walk faster.


You have tens of thousands of people in Meron all crowded. Did police perhaps move them along too aggressively? Could be, for sure. Is that an example of police brutality against charedim??? Noooo.

The police are not known for being extra gentle, but it has nothing with being charedi.
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ExtraCredit




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 11:56 am
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
I want to point out that many Tzaddikim over the years have said that America will be the final galus for jews. I dont have proof off hand but Ive heard this multiple times over the years.

Would be very interesting to see a source on this. I recall hearing it too but I wonder what it’s based on.
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 11:58 am
Blessing1 wrote:
She's not playing victim, she's right. There has always been an undercurrent of hate against chassidish in Israel. Chassidim can feel it and the rest deny it or say they deserve it.


She's right? That the chassidim in Israel are discriminated against and victimized even more than black people in America?
Give me a break.

A chassid can safely walk in EVERY single neighborhood. A group of chassidic boys can walk around Northern Tel Aviv at midnight and no one will stop them. (BTW, you can't say the same about a group of secular women in Meah Shearim).

No police officer has brutally beaten or murdered or choked a chassidic man to death.

What on earth are you comparing?
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 12:00 pm
I want to add, there are sectors in society who are more at risk of police harassment, mainly Ethiopians and Arabs. Charedim are generally not targets of suspicion unless they belong to violent extremist factions.
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chicco




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 15 2020, 12:01 pm
I don't know why a source would matter. Jewish and world history follow a pattern. Great nations fall. Jews get banished. Seems like we are at that point in the pattern. Jews are also given opportunities to break the pattern and bring Moshiach. Instead of wondering or sourcing someone saying America is the last galus, let's make it that way. Also, the last galus is Edom, and we are certainly in it. How many times will history repeat itself before we choose to do something about it?
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