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STMommy




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 12:39 pm
I know more than one school/mosad/building that has the name of a super wealthy donor/benefactor who was also found guilty of financial crimes and has spent time in jail. I was thinking about this over Shabbos and how I don't really understand it. I know it's so naive of me to think this way but I wish in the frum velt, we valued values and mitzvos over money when it comes to choosing whom we honor...
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 12:44 pm
DD was horribly bullied by kids who's parents were Big Name rabbis and school donors. I was a poor, single mom, and getting maximum scholarship.

The administrations (of more than one school) refused to address it, for fear of upsetting the wealthy people.

DD ended up in public school because of it. One day she said to me "Mama, why are the non Jewish kids so much nicer than the Jewish ones? They have such good middos!"

Crying What do you say to that? How do you explain to a second grader that rich and spoiled kids with yichus can get away with murder?
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amother




Peach
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 12:47 pm
I don't like the direction this thread is leading. I know more decent minded generous wealthy people than corrupt and bully wealthy. And I just had to put 100 in the bank so I wouldn't overdraft.

Bullies and dishonest people come in all income brackets. Middot are something we are all born with and need to refine regardless of economics.
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doodlesmom




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:00 pm
A name on a building is because they paid for it, and not an honor like being honored by a dinner.
I guess the discussion is if we should take money from scandalous sources for tzedaka.
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imasinger




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:06 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
DD was horribly bullied by kids who's parents were Big Name rabbis and school donors. I was a poor, single mom, and getting maximum scholarship.

The administrations (of more than one school) refused to address it, for fear of upsetting the wealthy people.

DD ended up in public school because of it. One day she said to me "Mama, why are the non Jewish kids so much nicer than the Jewish ones? They have such good middos!"

Crying What do you say to that? How do you explain to a second grader that rich and spoiled kids with yichus can get away with murder?


This is terrible. And perhaps not surprising from a hurt little girl who's a black and white thinker at times.

I think I would say, "Jewish kids are taught middos, but not everyone learns everything they're taught. There are good and bad people in every place. Let's try to find and stay with the good ones."

I know of many wealthy people with stellar middos.

But they don't get much airtime.
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weasley




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:26 pm
I know some wealthy people who are incredible and do so so much on the quiet.

I also know of one very wealthy individual who inappropriately touched 2 of my brothers once when they both arrived at a empty shul.

Theres rotten eggs in every sector of the community.

Most moisads need their money so choose to turn a blind eye when they hear worrying information.
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:28 pm
Would you prefer to pay higher tuition and have their name off of the building?
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amother




Khaki
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:32 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
I don't like the direction this thread is leading. I know more decent minded generous wealthy people than corrupt and bully wealthy. And I just had to put 100 in the bank so I wouldn't overdraft.

Bullies and dishonest people come in all income brackets. Middot are something we are all born with and need to refine regardless of economics.
this
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:35 pm
My gut reaction would be to say just remove someone’s make one they’re convicted of a crime, but life is complicated.
You can’t take away the good things someone did because they did some bad things too. The crimes one commits don’t negate their good deeds, it’s not for us to judge. I don’t know how I’d feel if my child went to Beis Madoff school, but people deserve the credit for the Mitzvahs they did carry out.
The famous Jewish mobster Mayer Lansky was a huge donor to the state of Israel in the early years.
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amother




Salmon
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:36 pm
It's not only a Jewish and only slightly a wealthy issue...

I grew up Catholic, and went to Catholic school for some time. For various reasons, but not due to any major bullying issues or issues with the schools, I eventually was in public school.

I found my peers in public school were so much more mentschlik and showed much better derech eretz.

I also had a similar reaction as FF's daughter. How could people who value or are from families who value religion and morals to the extent they pay tuition for a religious education be so horrid?

I think part of it is the nature of private schools. There's very poor accountability and sometimes a sore lacking of professionalism or even skill...in many cases, folks working there do it out of a moral obligation not because they are actually trained or particularly skilled at it. That's to be admired on one level, but it's also frustrating on another.

Of course, the stakes are higher in the Jewish world for a child who grows up with what I or FFs daughter went through.

Ultimately, it's about going into yourself and living Truth regardless of what others do....it's hard when people see poor examples or who are poor examples preach about things like they are the best...but Hashem knows the truth and our relationship with Him is what's most important.

There will always be not great people or people with blind spots and weaknesses in all groups.
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amother




Seafoam
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:36 pm
Unfortunately there are some very corrupt people out there. Most people are not like that BH.

I do however understand the question of why is it ok to accept tzedaka from corrupt sources. I don’t think it’s ok.
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amother




Peach
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:43 pm
doodlesmom wrote:
A name on a building is because they paid for it, and not an honor like being honored by a dinner.
I guess the discussion is if we should take money from scandalous sources for tzedaka.


As an aside most people who are "honored" are asked to commit to raising a certain amount. It's not much of an honor... Often people who can be expected to raise the most money either because they are wealthy or just influencial, well loved and respected ....

I was once approached to be honored. And they wanted me to raise 10k. I did not feel comfortable soliciting in my name on their behalf. And chose not to accept the honor. I'm sure larger orgs are looking to pull in even more.
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 1:59 pm
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
Unfortunately there are some very corrupt people out there. Most people are not like that BH.

I do however understand the question of why is it ok to accept tzedaka from corrupt sources. I don’t think it’s ok.


Theoretically, I agree. But practically, let’s assume my child goes to a school called a generic “Bais yaakov”. It happens to have the name John smith on the building and he is happy to keep on paying the maintenance and upkeep on the building. John smith turns out to have been involved in shady business and is now possibly ok trouble. They can take down his name and add a hefty “building fee” to their tuition or leave the name on the building and it doesn’t affect my pocket.

I would rather leave the name up, and I’m sure many people would agree, wether they will admit it or not.
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amother




Seafoam
 

Post  Tue, Oct 20 2020, 5:54 pm
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
Theoretically, I agree. But practically, let’s assume my child goes to a school called a generic “Bais yaakov”. It happens to have the name John smith on the building and he is happy to keep on paying the maintenance and upkeep on the building. John smith turns out to have been involved in shady business and is now possibly ok trouble. They can take down his name and add a hefty “building fee” to their tuition or leave the name on the building and it doesn’t affect my pocket.

I would rather leave the name up, and I’m sure many people would agree, wether they will admit it or not.

It’s a dangerous road to go down.. because then we are essentially allowing these things to go on and practically condoning them.
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