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S/o school memories as an adult
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 10:55 am
yo'ma wrote:
Forget about feeling bad for the teacher for a bit. How about feeling bad for themselves? I don’t mean the way you’re saying, which maybe that too, but more so that people have to take responsibility for themselves especially as an adult. I’m not talking about anything traumatic, but if I did something wrong as a child even though I was only a child, I feel bad about it. Someone punches someone and the second person punches them back, does their hand not still hurt? Does that metaphor work?

I did what I had to do to survive. If I someone god forbid would put me in that position again, took away my autonomy, gave me zero options, forced me to sit day after day for hours on end in an unsafe environment... oh I’d probably do way worse than I did back then.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:04 am
Zehava wrote:
I can only speak for myself. It’s great that you have this awareness. I find that most teachers don’t.
As a student I had a knack for knowing which teachers were the “good ones” and I wouldn’t deliberately hurt them.
But those who were out to assert their power never changed. And so yes I still think about incidents this way.
Matter of fact as an adult I am even more outraged at how I was treated.


This perception saddens me. I have worked with so many different teachers, and of course there are bad apples, but I don't believe that a majority of people I. Any field go into that field for the wrong reasons.

That would make the world a very sad place.

I am not discrediting your experience. I believe it and understand how that shapes your perception and feel terrible for you and all that you experienced.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:07 am
Zehava wrote:
See but those are intertwined. Our horror stories are what shapes our mindset.


I understand that. That's why it is interesting for me to ask you specifically this question. When you hear about the examples I give (labor, sheitel falling off) about random teachers do you feel the same way? Or is it only the specific teachers you had bad experiences with?
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:11 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
This perception saddens me. I have worked with so many different teachers, and of course there are bad apples, but I don't believe that a majority of people I. Any field go into that field for the wrong reasons.

That would make the world a very sad place.

I am not discrediting your experience. I believe it and understand how that shapes your perception and feel terrible for you and all that you experienced.


I grew up in a difficult and somewhat dysfunctional home.

My experience was that most teachers really don't understand what it's like to grow up that way. And more than that, if they actually realize that you come from a tough home situation, they look down at you.

There were exceptions. But not many.

I happen to have been something of a goody-goody. I also shone academically. But I have siblings who weren't. And really had it tough.

I also have siblings who remember some teachers who did some things to students that we considered abusive. It's hard for us to have any respect for such teachers. Locking a student in a closet. Putting tape over a first-grade student's mouth for an extended duration of time. Things like that.

And when a student comes from a tough family situation, there is usually no one advocating for her when she is being hurt. Or just cast aside because she's considered unimportant.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:11 am
thunderstorm wrote:
I have great regret for the trouble I caused my fifth grade teacher . It’s the only year that I made trouble. My parents were going through a divorce (and I didn’t even know it) my mother was very preoccupied and always crying and I guess out of fear and in desperate need of attention I turned into a monster and possibly destroyed that teacher’s first year of teaching. She hurt me on the first day of school. She accused me of talking because I turned my head. She made me close my book and shamed me in front of the entire class. She never gave me a chance. I reacted. Badly.
I regret my behavior. But what hurts even more is that years later I would meet her and say hello with a big smile and she’d turn her head and ignore me as if she did not know me. I think a teacher has to know that they are the adult in a classroom. Some students are in pain and act out because of that. To ignore a student who grew up and matured makes me think the teacher thinks she is on the same level as the student .


So sorry for what you went through. I really hope that if any my former student still feel so hurt by men that they would try to get in touch with me and we can discuss it and I could have the opportunity to apologize.
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yo'ma




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:13 am
I just want to add that I’m not a teacher (I was at a few points in my life for short periods of time, but I’m not looking at it from that perspective at all) and I was not a troublesome child except one year with one teacher because I was bored so I took it out on her, but nothing terrible at all. I doubt the teacher would even remember me.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:13 am
Zehava wrote:
She is asking why she sees grown women still viewing their teachers as they did in school. And that is because their teachers hurt them and treated them as less than human. Thinking about or seeing that teacher triggers that back into that space of being a small helpless child. And so no, they do not have the space to feel bad for the teacher.


Of course you don't feel bad for that teacher that hurt you.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:13 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I understand that. That's why it is interesting for me to ask you specifically this question. When you hear about the examples I give (labor, sheitel falling off) about random teachers do you feel the same way? Or is it only the specific teachers you had bad experiences with?

Well I can’t speak for those because they aren’t my experiences. So Ofcourse I can feel bad for a random teacher that it happened to.
With my own teachers, the only stories I remember are with teachers who were incompetent and/or mean. The way I felt then is the way I’d feel now. If a teacher I liked and trusted had gone into labor I would’ve been beside myself at the time worrying for her. As would my classmates.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:14 am
I had a teacher who screamed at me about an assignment in front of a bunch of other students. She never apologized. She also wouldn't let me retake a test and I was going through some very difficult times family wise, and I was already struggling in School socially. So I argued with her about a hot topic in class. I felt she was talking without experience. Just saying platitudes and clichés. Not being real. I was terribly chutzpahdik to her. Later, I found out, that I was discussed in the teachers room with a bunch of teachers. It ruined my summer.
More than that, a good few years of my life, I thought I was a horrible person. My self esteem plummeted. I apologized to the teacher later. But I could not look her in the eye since then.

I'm out of it now, and I can see that more than me, this teacher had some very real personal issues. I found out that I'm not such a bad person. And I have pity on her. I feel bad for her family.

I loved many teachers. I couldn't stand the ones that spoke to the students like friends and if you're connected to the teacher you're popular, if you aren't connected to them, you're not. A teacher is meant to be a teacher and not show favoritism. The teachers that came into the classroom, taught real stuff, and left were my favorite teachers. I hated the ones who connected to "certain" girls. Puke I still don't like them. But I do understand them.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:24 am
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:


I loved many teachers. I couldn't stand the ones that spoke to the students like friends and if you're connected to the teacher you're popular, if you aren't connected to them, you're not. A teacher is meant to be a teacher and not show favoritism. The teachers that came into the classroom, taught real stuff, and left were my favorite teachers. I hated the ones who connected to "certain" girls. Puke I still don't like them. But I do understand them.


This is well said! I mentor some new teachers. Many are young and idealistic and dream of "forming personal connections ". I always tell them that that's not what their students need. They need teachers to treat them fairly and with respect. Then they will feel safe and cared for.

I appreciate this other piece about the rest of the class feeling resentful. I am now going to include that point! Thank you!
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:25 am
Ok. I'm off to school now! Will get to check in much later iyh.
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amother




Lime
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:35 am
We had a sub we were rotten to. But it's because it was clear she didn't want to be there. She sat in the teacher's chair stinking of cigarette smoke and didn't try to engage. Then she went out with us at recess as required and found a corner by a building and lit up, which was an absolute no no even then.

A bunch of guys in the class went into her purse once when she went out and stole her cigarettes. Of course, they shouldn't have done that. But it was a direct response to what she presented us with.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:07 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I understand that. That's why it is interesting for me to ask you specifically this question. When you hear about the examples I give (labor, sheitel falling off) about random teachers do you feel the same way? Or is it only the specific teachers you had bad experiences with?


I don’t find those things funny , when I think as an adult. But when you have the memory , you are going back down memory lane as a child, so some people may find it funny still, because their child self found it funny back then and still do. They are viewing it with a child’s lens when reminiscing. That’s my opinion.
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crust




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:51 pm
I don't find pranks funny but sometimes I'm secretly happy that children give it back to people that are in chinuch only for power.

Why I'm happy? Because unfortunately, too many people in chinuch are too underdeveloped.

A prank/mishap/mistake moves these people out of their comfort zone. It makes a person in chinuch call a parent. It gives people in chincuh a chance to show their real self.

They can either bully back. Yuck.
Or, they can use it to show maturity, to show children how an adult deals with challenge.

As long as people in chinuch lack self awareness and self development they cannot expect a parent body that has more self awareness than them.

As the sayings in yiddish go;
אזויווי די מנהיג אזוי איז די קהל.
צו א קוטשער רעדט מען קוטשער שפראך.

Yes, I am aware that being in chinuch is volunteer work and is one of the most underpaid and unappreciated professions out there.

I still have the chutzpah (still have that chutzpah in me lol) to beg you for one thing only;
עשה למען תינוקית של בית רבן
Although you are merely a volunteer, please be an educated one. Developing yourself, your knowledge about real world problems and your self awareness is a gift that only you can give to your students.

Thank you.

P.s. children are people between the ages of 0 to an unspecified age. Not all children were created equal. Some mature at 13 some at 15 and some become adults in their early Twenties.
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amother




Gray
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:54 pm
As a teacher myself, I have mixed reactions to these situations.

Some of the ones on the other thread made me cringe. Ones that make the teacher look stupid or scare her out of her wits... not cool. Nor is it funny when something really embarrassing happens to a teacher. As a human being, I can feel empathy. That's partially because I don't like pranks of any sort. I don't like being made to look foolish, and I refrain from doing so to others. מן דעלך שני לחברך לא תעביד

That being said, when my younger sister tells me about her school stories (not pranks but just general things that happened), I fall back into student mode and often view the situation as a student. I didn't have great experiences in school and still hold some indignation about it.
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amother




Navy
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:27 pm
There's a difference between pranks trying to hurt or humiliate a teacher, and pranks that are fun- no one gets hurt.
The first kind, yes I'm embarrassed of those I was involved in, and I strongly discourage my children from taking part.
The 2nd kind are part and parcel of children developing. Examples are the annual Rosh Chodesh Adar shtick like hiding in the closet, answering all questions in a prearranged tune, or switching seats.
Those things are childish and immature, BUT DONT HURT ANYONE and part of being a teacher is tolerating it.
We traded seats in high school one Rosh Chodesh. One teacher gave a whole lecture "how students who are learning Sifrei Kodesh are better than that, it can be embarrassing, blah blah blah".
We were sitting. Quietly. With our materials. Ready to participate in class. Just in different seats.
Come on.
So yeah, that teacher officially lost our respect and we developed a very bad class relationship.

So when my kids tell me shtick of teddies on their desks, or dressing up like their mothers, or my boys- singing Ki Orech Yamim when the Rebbi walks in, or all wearing Kipot Srugot in a Lakewood school, - the adult me laughs.
Because kids are allowed to have fun not hurting anyone, even in school.
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amother




Blush
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:59 pm
I've had a few memorably horrible teachers who could have given Delores Umbridge a run for her money, but I had far more good teachers than bad ones. I am forever ashamed of how I and my classmates treated our 7th grade history teacher. She was a first year teacher and we just sensed that she was "fresh meat" and took advantage. It was wrong, we were more than old enough to know it was wrong, and she did not deserve it in the least. I heard she did grow into her role and became a good and much loved teacher. I have no idea where she is these days, and I wish I did because I want to ask mechila.
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amother




Aubergine
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 2:51 pm
I find it odd that so many women I know have not moved from high school. It's like they never progressed beyonce that stage of life. I don't know what that says about their life, now.

But...back when I was in school (and even after) what I thought was the weirdest was the way some of the teachers acted like they were still in high school. "Running after" the "cool" girls and treating them like they were extra special. So juvenile. Grown women desperate for their approval of the queen bee, many years their junior.

This is not a phenomena I have witnessed putside of the frum world.
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amother




Gray
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 2:54 pm
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
I find it odd that so many women I know have not moved from high school. It's like they never progressed beyonce that stage of life. I don't know what that says about their life, now.

But...back when I was in school (and even after) what I thought was the weirdest was the way some of the teachers acted like they were still in high school. "Running after" the "cool" girls and treating them like they were extra special. So juvenile. Grown women desperate for their approval of the queen bee, many years their junior.

This is not a phenomena I have witnessed putside of the frum world.


That would be phenomenon.

The teenage years are very traumatic for many, leaving them stuck in the unresolved issues for a long time. Since high school = teenage years, many women get stuck in the behaviors or difficulties from high school.

As far as teachers running after the cool girls, I agree, but something about the way it was written totally rubbed me the wrong way.
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amother




Aubergine
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 3:00 pm
amother [ Gray ] wrote:
That would be phenomenon.

The teenage years are very traumatic for many, leaving them stuck in the unresolved issues for a long time. Since high school = teenage years, many women get stuck in the behaviors or difficulties from high school.

As far as teachers running after the cool girls, I agree, but something about the way it was written totally rubbed me the wrong way.

Please. The women who are stuck in the past were not those who had a hard time in school, or at home. Those that did, grew up, and grew beyond.
These are also the women who feel the need to live vicariously thru their teen daughters now. It is like this was the highlight of their life and everything was downhill from there. It is a certain immaturity. Just because it rubs you the wrong way doesn't make it untrue. (When these women become teachers, they turn into those teachers who run after the cool girls. It's pathetic, really.)
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