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Bar mitzvah in tier 3 corona restrictions. Dh won't budge. W
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:37 am
amother [ Teal ] wrote:
Do Uk laws allow for people to come up to your property but not come onto it? To come family by family or boy by boy, stay behind a line, take a packaged food gift you made, say mazal tov, and go?

Also, you say shuls are open. What are the rules there? Can people come to hear him lein? Can food be given out prepackaged?


I'm not sure but probably not.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 11:39 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
What? And not even have my parents round for their oldest son's bar mitzvah?? Nope not happening. My father, mother and single brother are all working like normal (bc of course that's allowed bc it's for the economy!) So why not this?! Makes zero sense. Just bc its the law?! Ridiculous sorry


We are required to follow the law, I don't know why so many people didn't learn this. I don't know why our Ravs aren't pushing this.
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:10 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Our shul is open like normal. My dh is one of the only ones wearing a mask. Family and a couple of my sons friends can come to hear hI'm lein


Is it ok to make it in the shul, something small after the leining?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:17 pm
Success10 wrote:
Is it ok to make it in the shul, something small after the leining?


Yes that should be ok. We hope to do that iyH. I'm talking about the 'seuda' being in our garden.
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:48 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Yes that should be ok. We hope to do that iyH. I'm talking about the 'seuda' being in our garden.


Can you not host the seuda in the shul, though? On shabbos or during the week?
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amother




Orchid
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 2:06 pm
The UK government has set arbitary restrictions. They allow businesses etc to operate as normal, go shopping, eat out as normal, go to shul as usual, but you can't meet someone from outside your house, even outside. It's illogical and makes no sense which is why I totally understand OP. Most people I know are being careful but not necessarily following the precise guidelines. I would do it in your parents house if you're worried about neighbours. Also weather conditions being what they are, you probably won't be able to have it outside anyway.
Hope it works out for you.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 2:33 pm
Success10 wrote:
Can you not host the seuda in the shul, though? On shabbos or during the week?


No, the shul is relatively new and doesn't have weekday minyonim yet. They use a school hall on shabbos.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 2:34 pm
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
The UK government has set arbitary restrictions. They allow businesses etc to operate as normal, go shopping, eat out as normal, go to shul as usual, but you can't meet someone from outside your house, even outside. It's illogical and makes no sense which is why I totally understand OP. Most people I know are being careful but not necessarily following the precise guidelines. I would do it in your parents house if you're worried about neighbours. Also weather conditions being what they are, you probably won't be able to have it outside anyway.
Hope it works out for you.


Thank you for explaining it so well. And thank you for your advice.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 2:34 pm
Sounds like you have tons of options.

First if all, your son can lein in shul, and people can come hear him. That's huge.

And it sounds like you can have a seudah in a restaurant or maybe some small hall. You just can't do it in your garden.

I agree that seems pretty arbitrary, but it sounds like you have plenty of options at your disposal. You are very lucky!
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amother




Peach
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 3:17 pm
Um yes my son put on tefillin on zoom.
No one but me, dh and siblings (meaning our own children) present.
Not only because of the law, but because of our own health being so high risk.

Is he disappointed? Yes. That's what it is.
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amother




Purple
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 3:28 pm
Why don't come to a mutual understanding with your dh which should be irrelevant to what some IMA's on here think as everyone has their own agenda to push......
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amother




Fuchsia
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 3:40 pm
OP, please don't do it. It's a chillul Hashem, before you even get on to the other stuff. People DO get fined. And I'm assuming that his friends with restaurant seudas etc had those before Tier 3 kicked in...

You still have a little time to play with. Do a Thursday morning zoom leining, and deliver small l'chaim packages to everyone for a Sunday online party. Your husband (or you!) can give a welcome speech, the boy's friends can do the usual shtick, he can give a Dvar Torah etc. Everyone drinks a l'chaim together!

And you can still do the Shul part. But this way everyone hears the leining and joins the party in a legal and Covid-secure way.

Mazeltov x

(ETA - I know it's hard. But I've been watching zoom weddings where the bride or groom's parents are thousands of miles away - Boruch Hashem that you and your DH can at least be WITH your son at his simcha).
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amother




Burlywood
 

Post  Wed, Oct 21 2020, 4:28 pm
I would be going to hear my son lein in shul. And I would not be breaking restrictions by having a seudah. It is very hard for our children to understand but really no one understands how this virus is behaving and making a simcha gives it the opportunity to spread even if we think we are being safe. If we don’t act together as a community to look after each other we are going to see a lot more misery. My heart goes out to you it is not the way we should be celebrating our simchas. Mazal Tov.
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amother




Red
 

Post  Mon, Oct 26 2020, 9:20 am
Everyone has different variations of how they're perceiving things because info isn't consistent.
My understanding is that, like the flu, having Covid once, doesn't mean one won't chas v'shalom get it again.

Again we all have a different understanding about what's going on, because this has never happened before, everyone is in uncharted territory. in my understanding, your husband is being a good role model for your family & community.

(Headlines, the podcast by Rav Dovid Lichtenstein, is a source of information about all of this, halachically & hashkaphically. He interviews Rabbonim regarding current events & contraversial issues.
I cannot paraphrase adequately, but one can hear discussions about the Halachic basis for full rule following, even if the medical guidelines are inconsistent or unsound in any way.
Whatever the case, Jews are supposed to be models of going the extra mile for preserving life - we don't even eat meat & fish if it just touched for fear of sakana; & we all know that Shabbos rules are instantly trumped by anything neccesary if a life is in danger - & in the eyes of non Jews, some are flabbergasted by hearing about Jewish population's ignorant, or apathetic disregard of rules.
If the guidelines are unnecessary, there's another danger of the rise in chilul Hashem, causing anti-semitism rachmanus litzkan, chas v'shalom it could have dangerous repurcusions especially as the country has been gradually moving more left.)

Mazel tov to you and your family. It's so, so sad to not celebrate our simchas as we'd all like to.

Maybe for anyone facing these challenges, perhaps consider, especially from a Yiddishe mother, what deeper gifts one can give their family about deeper Torah priorities. (Along with iyH' with a lavish meal, gorgeous clothes etc) a mother especially can be the one to give over tremendous deeper values than a beautiful party can ever alone, like the simcha for what one's family is blessed with, enthusiasm to protect others & make a kiddush Hashem, & that it's not just about the impact on others, but on the hishtadlus Hashem sees.
I don't know you & have no right to comment personally, but also perhaps giving kavod to one's husband for how he sees fit to lead the family, in this case being stricter than the respective community members, could be applauding, praising his decision to be careful & saying so in front ones children, enhancing this aspect of shalom bayis, is another way to celebrate & bring down shefa & bracha & honor the beautiful rite of passage for your son.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Oct 26 2020, 10:33 am
amother [ Red ] wrote:
Everyone has different variations of how they're perceiving things because info isn't consistent.
My understanding is that, like the flu, having Covid once, doesn't mean one won't chas v'shalom get it again.

Again we all have a different understanding about what's going on, because this has never happened before, everyone is in uncharted territory. in my understanding, your husband is being a good role model for your family & community.

(Headlines, the podcast by Rav Dovid Lichtenstein, is a source of information about all of this, halachically & hashkaphically. He interviews Rabbonim regarding current events & contraversial issues.
I cannot paraphrase adequately, but one can hear discussions about the Halachic basis for full rule following, even if the medical guidelines are inconsistent or unsound in any way.
Whatever the case, Jews are supposed to be models of going the extra mile for preserving life - we don't even eat meat & fish if it just touched for fear of sakana; & we all know that Shabbos rules are instantly trumped by anything neccesary if a life is in danger - & in the eyes of non Jews, some are flabbergasted by hearing about Jewish population's ignorant, or apathetic disregard of rules.
If the guidelines are unnecessary, there's another danger of the rise in chilul Hashem, causing anti-semitism rachmanus litzkan, chas v'shalom it could have dangerous repurcusions especially as the country has been gradually moving more left.)

Mazel tov to you and your family. It's so, so sad to not celebrate our simchas as we'd all like to.

Maybe for anyone facing these challenges, perhaps consider, especially from a Yiddishe mother, what deeper gifts one can give their family about deeper Torah priorities. (Along with iyH' with a lavish meal, gorgeous clothes etc) a mother especially can be the one to give over tremendous deeper values than a beautiful party can ever alone, like the simcha for what one's family is blessed with, enthusiasm to protect others & make a kiddush Hashem, & that it's not just about the impact on others, but on the hishtadlus Hashem sees.
I don't know you & have no right to comment personally, but also perhaps giving kavod to one's husband for how he sees fit to lead the family, in this case being stricter than the respective community members, could be applauding, praising his decision to be careful & saying so in front ones children, enhancing this aspect of shalom bayis, is another way to celebrate & bring down shefa & bracha & honor the beautiful rite of passage for your son.


This is so beautiful and you brought out such good points that I didn't think of . Thanks so much for taking the time to reply Smile

We've since, come to an agreement and are having it at my parents back garden in the end.
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amother




Red
 

Post  Mon, Oct 26 2020, 10:42 am
Wow, your reply was so kind -
(I was hesitant to post at all, since unfortunately on this website content can sometimes be so... impolite πŸ™ƒ to put it lightly).
Thank you for your kind words & mazel Tov!
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Oct 26 2020, 10:43 am
amother [ Red ] wrote:
Wow, your reply was so kind -
(I was hesitant to post at all, since unfortunately on this website content can sometimes be so... impolite πŸ™ƒ to put it lightly).
Thank you for your kind words & mazel Tov!


Thank you!
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amother




Red
 

Post  Mon, Oct 26 2020, 10:45 am
May we all come out of this stronger, & see refuah & yeshuah soon
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