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Anyone have a daughter in Bais Faiga- 7th grade?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Oct 26 2020, 10:22 pm
Chayalle wrote:
BTW it's a known thing that BF ups the academic level in 6th grade. Mrs. Epstein believes in keeping things a bit more chilled for younger children, so they have more downtime, and then upping the level later on in order that they come to high school prepared.


This is a big problem for a good girl who really tries hard and wants to do well but struggles academically... the pressure is too much. It’s not fair to a child like this.
(I don’t know yet what we will do for high school but I’ve been thinking about it a lot. It’s not so simple for a girl who cares and wants to be with other girls similar to her.)
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Oct 26 2020, 10:29 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
This is a big problem for a good girl who really tries hard and wants to do well but struggles academically... the pressure is too much. It’s not fair to a child like this.
(I don’t know yet what we will do for high school but I’ve been thinking about it a lot. It’s not so simple for a girl who cares and wants to be with other girls similar to her.)


I hear.

I remember once discussing this with Ziva Kriger A"H. She was very pro this method, because at least pressure isn't being placed on very young kids. She said she has been to schools where little first graders were told to right a paragraph in Hebrew, things like that. She said it was too much for many.

But once they get to older grades, the school does have an achrayus to get them ready for high school.

I can tell you I have a relative whose child struggled academically, some mild learning disabilities but a very bright (in other ways), normal, regular girl with amazing social skills, good kid, etc...and she absolutely thrived in the high school she went to. They appreciated her for who she is.

Does that mean the whole high school should not have an academic standard? no. But they worked with her and let her shine in areas where she naturally does.
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amother




Burgundy
 

Post  Tue, Oct 27 2020, 2:48 pm
Chayalle wrote:
I hear.

I remember once discussing this with Ziva Kriger A"H. She was very pro this method, because at least pressure isn't being placed on very young kids. She said she has been to schools where little first graders were told to right a paragraph in Hebrew, things like that. She said it was too much for many.

But once they get to older grades, the school does have an achrayus to get them ready for high school.

Does that mean the whole high school should not have an academic standard? no. But they worked with her and let her shine in areas where she naturally does.


Unless you send half the kids to therapy many kids can't take the pressure. I hear so many parents complain. Why did the level of high school get so high in recent years. I remember a mother telling her daughter enjoy your teenage years they are the best years of life and daughter answered every day our teacher makes us worry about the upcoming midterm, then finals.which reflect on us getting a diploma and even seminary. High schools have long hours the kids get consequences for coming late. Go to sleep late because they have so much homework. A little extra time on weekends used to make up some sleeping hours. Let them enjoy innocent life. And let's teach our teens more hashkafa. In the crazy world we live in we need that more than learning about our Navyim inside the navi and memorizing a bunch of dates. This doesn't prepare our teens for life and neither does stress. Please tell me of you feel that by learning 2 types of navi and chumash you are now better prepared for anything other than doing your own child's homework for him or her
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amother




Lilac
 

Post  Tue, Oct 27 2020, 2:58 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
Please also consider writing an letter to the voice of lakewood (and if you want) some people wrote in about 2 weeks ago. But it was not addressed because there was not enough response. The principals are going crazy competing who could produce the smartest students its getting out of hand. My child is in a different school 2 grades younger but pressure is already starting. I would rather they put in an extra gym class that I feel these kids could use. I overheard a parent complaining to a high-school teacher that her daughter studied so hard, was so stressed for a test and came home crying because she got a 80. the teacher told her that was the highest mark. High school students need the challenge to sharpen there mind. Im getting stressed just thinking about it. This is mental child labor


I think writing a letter to a periodical is an immature way of dealing with the situation.
I don’t think any mature and responsible school or institution changes because of anonymous letters to a paper. And I don’t think they should.
Speak to the principals and teachers.
Bais faiga has been operating in the same manner for years. None of this is new.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Oct 27 2020, 3:03 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
Unless you send half the kids to therapy many kids can't take the pressure. I hear so many parents complain. Why did the level of high school get so high in recent years. I remember a mother telling her daughter enjoy your teenage years they are the best years of life and daughter answered every day our teacher makes us worry about the upcoming midterm, then finals.which reflect on us getting a diploma and even seminary. High schools have long hours the kids get consequences for coming late. Go to sleep late because they have so much homework. A little extra time on weekends used to make up some sleeping hours. Let them enjoy innocent life. And let's teach our teens more hashkafa. In the crazy world we live in we need that more than learning about our Navyim inside the navi and memorizing a bunch of dates. This doesn't prepare our teens for life and neither does stress. Please tell me of you feel that by learning 2 types of navi and chumash you are now better prepared for anything other than doing your own child's homework for him or her


You mention a few points in your post so gonna respond in steps.

In terms of pressure, I do think that high schools are there for teaching, and should teach at a certain level. That being said, I don't think there needs to be so much pressure, and I'll also say that not every high school has it.

I have two DD's who graduated high school (BK) and for the most part, I think they did pretty well in terms of that. BK is not high-pressure, though they taught plenty (and BF does a good job preparing them for that). My girls did not go to sleep late from tons of h.w. most of the time, and did not live in fear and dread of exams. It was pretty normal. A nice balance of fun and learning for the most part.

And yes, there are some hs's that are high pressure. I've heard of girls feeling lots of burnout. And alot of that is driven by the parents who send there, and want an elite school, with a top education. Guess how you get that? From a pressure environment. You get them both as a package deal, if that's what you want.

In terms of chumash and navi, I can only tell you what a Rav who taught me Halacha in high school - a very chashuve and well-known in my town Rav - told my mother A"H. From Chumash and Navi you gain Yiras Shomayim. So yes, I do think learning Chumash and Navi prepares one for life. (but it doesn't have to be done in a pressurized way. It doesn't have to involve memorizing tons of different meforshim till your head spins. But it should be taught.)
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Tue, Oct 27 2020, 4:06 pm
Chayalle wrote:
And yes, there are some hs's that are high pressure. I've heard of girls feeling lots of burnout. And alot of that is driven by the parents who send there, and want an elite school, with a top education. Guess how you get that? From a pressure environment. You get them both as a package deal, if that's what you want.

Apologies for intruding on OP's thread, but would you mind explaining what a "top education" means in this context? Is it about breadth or depth of coverage, or both? Or is it more about analysis and insight? I'm not in Lakewood, but I am sending to a school that is to the right of our family and wondering what to expect as my girls get older.
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amother




Burgundy
 

Post  Tue, Oct 27 2020, 7:20 pm
[quote= [ ]"]
I don’t think any mature and responsible school or institution changes because of anonymous letters to a paper. And I don’t think they should.
Speak to the principals and teachers.
Bais faiga has been operating in the same manner for years. None of this is new.[/quote]

I'm saying so because topics that have alot of back and forth replies opens up discussions. Of course discuss it with the principal but it would be good if it could be dressed to the pull beause its happening in alot of schools and is in part a community problem. Like Chayalle said some parents like the kids have the pressure
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amother




Lawngreen
 

Post  Tue, Oct 27 2020, 8:44 pm
amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Speak to the principals and teachers.
This. But not the teachers, it's not in their hands. Try Mrs. Epstein and the assistant principals. I've found all of them very accommodating.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Oct 27 2020, 9:04 pm
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
This. But not the teachers, it's not in their hands. Try Mrs. Epstein and the assistant principals. I've found all of them very accommodating.


Which assistant principals?
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 9:52 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Which assistant principals?


Mrs Uhr is assistant principal of BF older grades.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 9:59 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
Apologies for intruding on OP's thread, but would you mind explaining what a "top education" means in this context? Is it about breadth or depth of coverage, or both? Or is it more about analysis and insight? I'm not in Lakewood, but I am sending to a school that is to the right of our family and wondering what to expect as my girls get older.


Probably a combination of breadth - covering ground - and depth, learning inside with lots of Meforshim, etc....

I personally went to a high school that is considered top-notch in terms of education. We had multiple subjects to address breadth and depth. For example, for Navi and Chumash, we had separate subjects that covered breadth - bekius - such that we covered much of Chumash with main Rashi's - and much of Neviim Rishonim on a surface level. We then had separate subjects for in-depth study of Chumash, and in-depth study of Neviim Acharonim. Dikduk and Hebrew language were also taught on a pretty high level (I can communicate in Hebrew quite comfortably), as well as other subjects like Halacha, Yehadus, Historia, etc....

We were also given a pretty well-rounded secular education, with options for AP college courses in 12th grade. Math taught up to a college level (pre-calculus offered to those who could handle), English, Science (biology and chemistry, and taught by a competent teacher, with labs, etc..), History, etc...

Of course, what a student got out of her high school years depended on her academic ability. But the school offered it for those who could/would take advantage.

Not sure what you mean by analysis and insight, but I hope I answered your question.
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 10:41 am
Chayalle wrote:
Probably a combination of breadth - covering ground - and depth, learning inside with lots of Meforshim, etc....

I personally went to a high school that is considered top-notch in terms of education. We had multiple subjects to address breadth and depth. For example, for Navi and Chumash, we had separate subjects that covered breadth - bekius - such that we covered much of Chumash with main Rashi's - and much of Neviim Rishonim on a surface level. We then had separate subjects for in-depth study of Chumash, and in-depth study of Neviim Acharonim. Dikduk and Hebrew language were also taught on a pretty high level (I can communicate in Hebrew quite comfortably), as well as other subjects like Halacha, Yehadus, Historia, etc....

We were also given a pretty well-rounded secular education, with options for AP college courses in 12th grade. Math taught up to a college level (pre-calculus offered to those who could handle), English, Science (biology and chemistry, and taught by a competent teacher, with labs, etc..), History, etc...

Of course, what a student got out of her high school years depended on her academic ability. But the school offered it for those who could/would take advantage.

Not sure what you mean by analysis and insight, but I hope I answered your question.

Thank you so much, you answered my question very helpfully. I really appreciate it.

By analysis and insight I meant an expectation to produce written work similar to thesis papers, dvar torahs, or brief articles. E.g. where the student, for example, identifies a tension between certain sources and makes an argument to resolve that tension. Or draws a parallel between two seemingly unrelated portions of text and supports it. Or raises a question seemingly left unanswered, but then answers it using other sources.

Thank you again.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 10:45 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
Thank you so much, you answered my question very helpfully. I really appreciate it.

By analysis and insight I meant an expectation to produce written work similar to thesis papers, dvar torahs, or brief articles. E.g. where the student, for example, identifies a tension between certain sources and makes an argument to resolve that tension. Or draws a parallel between two seemingly unrelated portions of text and supports it. Or raises a question seemingly left unanswered, but then answers it using other sources.

Thank you again.


Well, I had to do a documented essay on topic of my choosing (with teacher's approval) in 12th grade college class (I did it on euthanasia).
I don't recall my girls doing anything similar in their Lakewood hs class, though they did have projects like research/biography on a Gadol, science projects, books they had to read and analyze and write a paper on, etc...
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 10:56 am
Chayalle wrote:
Well, I had to do a documented essay on topic of my choosing (with teacher's approval) in 12th grade college class (I did it on euthanasia).
I don't recall my girls doing anything similar in their Lakewood hs class, though they did have projects like research/biography on a Gadol, science projects, books they had to read and analyze and write a paper on, etc...

Thank you for the additional info. BH I am comfortable with our school's level of secular education and I am also much more confident in my own ability to judge it and to identify whether my children are falling behind or being assigned undemanding work. The Judaics curriculum is more of an unknown to me. Your posts here have been helpful and I appreciate your patience in explaining things that probably seem obvious.
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